Mark Levinson on today’s audio industry

[wil]

There have been some reports of reliability issues with certain Mark Levinson products, particularly some of their newer models.

• Specific models: Some online forums (Audiogon) mention issues with the Mark Levinson 5805 preamplifier, specifically from around 2019-2021

Nothing to do with Mr Levinson. Harmon products!

 

[Kingrex]

FWIW. I basically lost somewhat of a friend over this. I have a old client that called and asked about the Daniel Hertz C Wave. I looked at it and took it to Audiophile Junkies private chat. Jason (Audiophile Junkie) became furious. Foaming mad Mark L would have a pattent on something audio that brought a measurable health benefit to people. I was basically told I didn't belong in the group as I believed in the lies. And, I don't have a BACCH. And I don't believe DSP is the way to better sound. Eventually it was clear I had to leave.

Before I left, I did a little research.
Mark seems to have a product that plays music very well. My client listened and put a down payment on it.
As far as high end pricing. $19k gets you speakers, amp, preamp, DAC and streamer. You don't need anything else. So, its not that expensive if you look at the pile of parts and pieces on your rack. Yes you can walk up the ladder and spend $30k, $60k and more.

Per cutting edge technology?????
My understanding is there is DSP embedded in a proprietary chip that is designed to match the speaker to amp, preamp. And that chip is also injecting reverb into the signal to boost the sense of harmonic completeness. Nothing cutting edge here. Not that I see.

The medical claim as far as I can see is 1 test performed where the control source material/signal may have been a MP3 of who knows what recording compared to a high resolution track played through his system. Now, I absolutely believe music can relax you and in a relaxed state, your organs probably calm down and repair. Something to that affect. I believe a any good stereo could do this. Playing a crappy recording of a MP3 through who knows what because its not revealed may very well agitate someone. Just bad music that I don't like can make me irate.

So, is there anything cutting edge. I don't see it. Oddly this is where a flip between Jason and I has occured. Now that Mark Levinson is clicks on Jasons channel, its a love fest. All softball questions. No meat pertaining to anything about the technology or claims. I on the other hand would like more clarity. We really have little understanding of what is under the hood. Then again, do we have any understanding what is driving any of the gear we have. Can anyone tell me the coding in Wadax or Taiko???? We just assume it sounds good and purchase it. So maybe I should care less and just go with, the new Mark Leinson C Wave gear is nice sounding equipment for a moderate price. Or expensive depending on the model you choose.

 

[Carlos269]

FWIW. I basically lost somewhat of a friend over this. I have a old client that called and asked about the Daniel Hertz C Wave. I looked at it and took it to Audiophile Junkies private chat. Jason (Audiophile Junkie) became furious. Foaming mad Mark L would have a pattent on something audio that brought a measurable health benefit to people. I was basically told I didn't belong in the group as I believed in the lies. And, I don't have a BACCH. And I don't believe DSP is the way to better sound. Eventually it was clear I had to leave.

Before I left, I did a little research.
Mark seems to have a product that plays music very well. My client listened and put a down payment on it.
As far as high end pricing. $19k gets you speakers, amp, preamp, DAC and streamer. You don't need anything else. So, its not that expensive if you look at the pile of parts and pieces on your rack. Yes you can walk up the ladder and spend $30k, $60k and more.

Per cutting edge technology?????
My understanding is there is DSP embedded in a proprietary chip that is designed to match the speaker to amp, preamp. And that chip is also injecting reverb into the signal to boost the sense of harmonic completeness. Nothing cutting edge here. Not that I see.

The medical claim as far as I can see is 1 test performed where the control source material/signal may have been a MP3 of who knows what recording compared to a high resolution track played through his system. Now, I absolutely believe music can relax you and in a relaxed state, your organs probably calm down and repair. Something to that affect. I believe a any good stereo could do this. Playing a crappy recording of a MP3 through who knows what because its not revealed may very well agitate someone. Just bad music that I don't like can make me irate.

So, is there anything cutting edge. I don't see it. Oddly this is where a flip between Jason and I has occured. Now that Mark Levinson is clicks on Jasons channel, its a love fest. All softball questions. No meat pertaining to anything about the technology or claims. I on the other hand would like more clarity. We really have little understanding of what is under the hood. Then again, do we have any understanding what is driving any of the gear we have. Can anyone tell me the coding in Wadax or Taiko???? We just assume it sounds good and purchase it. So maybe I should care less and just go with, the new Mark Leinson C Wave gear is nice sounding equipment for a moderate price. Or expensive depending on the model you choose.

Rex, when you are dealing with components that are software or firmware driven then you don’t really know what is in the code. This is where laboratory type measurements, like the ones performed by John Atkinson at Stereophile come in. A simple sine wave reconstruction test will tell you all you need to know, if the component is neutral or if there is major signal processing and sound “voicing” going on. Why do you think it is that WADAX has not provided any units for laboratory testing? What are they hiding?

 

[Lagonda]

This is the fact I'm curious to learn about. How were ML products priced relative to competing products in the 1970s and 1980s?

Was Mark Levinson, in fact, the Boulder of his day?

You have to factor times 10 in price and gullibility for today's high-end customers, we just fall for everything And pay for it

 

[Lagonda]

And in Gian’s friend’s Wilson Grand Slamm X1 with Mark Levinson (ML) 32 pre, ML 33 power, the riviera hybrids with the right valve roll were much better than the MLs. Best I have heard Wilson’s (and the only time I liked them).

that does not change the importance of what ML is saying in that article

I think that equipment was made after Levinson got booted out of the company

 

[andromedaaudio]

ML 32 .....still wanna buy one .
Everytime an add shows up i check the price .

Deaf uneducated audiophiles like me are unable to hear progress it seems (unfortunately).

 

[wil]

The medical claim as far as I can see is 1 test performed where the control source material/signal may have been a MP3 of who knows what recording compared to a high resolution track played through his system. Now, I absolutely believe music can relax you and in a relaxed state, your organs probably calm down and repair. Something to that affect. I believe a any good stereo could do this. Playing a crappy recording of a MP3 through who knows what because its not revealed may very well agitate someone. Just bad music that I don't like can make me irate.

Rex, does the patent not state that the same file was used (comparing one without the C Wave dsp and one with?).

This wouldn't make any sense and would certainly not make it past a Patent review.

I haven't read the patent, btw...

 

[Kingrex]

Good point Wil. Maybe your right. So adding reverb helps the body. I never knew my Fender Delux Reverb amp was a medical device. But I did feel good when I played it.

This does circle back to what I was saying about the interviews by audiophile junkie. Where are the questions about how the test was performed. How many times was the test performed. How many subjects was it performed on. What was the media use to perform the test. His whole interview with mark was softball. It really told us nothing. It's almost like he was irrationally angry when I initially broached the subject on his chat group, Then he became starstruck when he got in front of Mark.

That or audiophile junkie being somewhat a part of the system now realizes any real questioning of a manufacturer would probably lead to being blackballed and never getting an audience with one again. The concept somewhat trips up to what Bonzo has been saying. In my words, do we really get any information from media? Or do we only get marketing hype packaged as unbiased.

 

[Kingrex]

Rex, when you are dealing with components that are software or firmware driven then you don’t really know what is in the code. This is where laboratory type measurements, like the ones performed by John Atkinson at Stereophile come in. A simple sine wave reconstruction test will tell you all you need to know, if the component is neutral or if there is major signal processing and sound “voicing” going on. Why do you think it is that WADAX has not provided any units for laboratory testing? What are they hiding?

Well, software does seem to have a profound impact on digital playback. Intellectual property theft cost billions to business.

 

[Carlos269]

Well, software does seem to have a profound impact on digital playback. Intellectual property theft cost billions to business.

Care to clarify these statements as they make no sense. 1) software could have a huge impact on digital playback, depending on its function. 2) laboratory measurements have nothing to do with intellectual property as they tell you what the device is producing not how it produced it.

 

[Kingrex]

Care to clarify these statements

No, not really.

 

[Carlos269]

No, not really.

That’s not surprising given fallacies in your comments.

 

[Ron Resnick]

You have to factor times 10 in price and gullibility for today's high-end customers, we just fall for everything And pay for it

Who is the "we" to whom you refer?

 

[Lagonda]

Who is the "we" to whom you refer?

Us stupid WBF members in particular and audiophiles in general !

 

[AudioLibertarian]

There have been some reports of reliability issues with certain Mark Levinson products, particularly some of their newer models.

• Specific models: Some online forums (Audiogon) mention issues with the Mark Levinson 5805 preamplifier, specifically from around 2019-2021

Mark Levinson the person has NOT been a part of the Mark Levinson the company, since mid 80, so he has nothing to do with whatever issues the current owners, first Harmon Industries, now Samsung of Korea, have had with their designs over the period you ve mentioned.

 

[Elliot G.]

Mark Levinson the person has NOT been a part of the Mark Levinson the company, since mid 80, so he has nothing to do with whatever issues the current owners, first Harmon Industries, now Samsung of Korea, have had with their designs over the period you ve mentioned.

MLAS became Madrigal a long time before Harman purchased the company. Mr. Levinson was "removed" before that when Sandy Berlin with Mike Kay and a few other small investors bought the company out of receivership. Mr. Berlin really grew the business and the vast majority of the products we knew come from that time. I'm not sure exactly what year this was but it was in the early 80's when I worked at Lyric and we spent a lot of time working with the company and were its largest dealer.
After he left there were at least two other companies he started Cello Music and Film and Red Rose music that didn't make it either under his leadership. IMO more infamous than Icon.

 

[Kingrex]

MLAS became Madrigal a long time before Harman purchased the company. Mr. Levinson was "removed" before that when Sandy Berlin with Mike Kay and a few other small investors bought the company out of receivership. Mr. Berlin really grew the business and the vast majority of the products we knew come from that time. I'm not sure exactly what year this was but it was in the early 80's when I worked at Lyric and we spent a lot of time working with the company and were its largest dealer.
After he left there were at least two other companies he started Cello Music and Film and Red Rose music that didn't make it either under his leadership. IMO more infamous than Icon.

Makes you wonder if he will be around for the long haul to service the new gear.

 

[howiebrou]

I believe ML was a Harmon product in the late 90’s.

This article is a nice summary of some of the ML products https://www.audioexchange.co.za/mark-levinson/

 

[Elliot G.]

I think so but I think ML was still involved then?
This article is a nice summary of some of the ML products https://www.audioexchange.co.za/mark-levinson/

No Howie the company was purchased out of receivership in 84
i put on another thread the history it’s his interview thread

 

[Lagonda]

Makes you wonder if he will be around for the long haul to service the new gear.

I bought about $ 70 K worth of equipment from Cello in Ft. Lauderdale right before they went bust, everything got delivered and installed, but no help in case of problems.