METAXAS Tourbillon T-RX

[Zeotrope]

to me vertical implied 90degrees
45 degrees is sloped/tilted and fine

Yes, sorry, I should have made that clear. And Thank You for trying to help - I do appreciate that Very much, as I start down this path…

EQ question: CCIR = IEC, correct? If you are buying recording albums on tape, they should all come with this EQ, is that right? I know some machines do not have user-selectable EQ (i.e., NAB or CCIR).

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

no problem
yes and most modern recordings and even older SMs and PMs are CCIR/IEC, but some prefers NAB, like e.g Ed Pong of Ultra analogue recordings
most commercial 4 track you can buy even here in Europe are NAB

 

[adrianywu]

This is interesting, actually. I read (perhaps somewhere here) that in 1983 the Nagra T cost 23,000 GBP. That’s only USD15,000 at the time. Adjusted for inflation, that’s about $50,000 today.
So nowhere near the cost of a home anywhere, let alone in London.

I don't believe GBP has ever been worth less than USD. In fact, according to the BOE site, a pound was worth around $1.50 in 1983. That would mean US$34,000.
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/b...rical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD-1983
Based on US inflation data, that would be equivalent to US$104,000 today. Based on BOE inflation calculator, that is 74,550 GBP today. Not nearly enough for a nice flat in London nowadays.
However at the time, the UK housing market was in a severe recession due to very high interest rates. It would have been possible to buy a London flat for around that amount of money. The flat would have kept its value a lot better than the Nagra !

 

[Zeotrope]

I don't believe GBP has ever been worth less than USD. In fact, according to the BOE site, a pound was worth around $1.50 in 1983. That would mean US$34,000.
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/b...rical-spot-exchange-rates/gbp/GBP-to-USD-1983
Based on US inflation data, that would be equivalent to US$104,000 today. Based on BOE inflation calculator, that is 74,550 GBP today. Not nearly enough for a nice flat in London nowadays.
However at the time, the UK housing market was in a severe recession due to very high interest rates. It would have been possible to buy a London flat for around that amount of money. The flat would have kept its value a lot better than the Nagra !

I looked at the same site. I thought that because the ratio is "GBP/USD", that means that $1 USD = 1.50GBP.
But that's not correct, as I just checked current rates and they are about 1.3 USD to 1 GBP.
So you are right, thanks!

And if Nagra ever releases a new machine (perhaps for their 75th anniversary in a few years?!) it will surely cost north of $100K. I'm guessing around $175k to be in line with the Reference TT, with a lower priced HD unit to follow (as it will for the TT).

 

[adrianywu]

I looked at the same site. I thought that because the ratio is "GBP/USD", that means that $1 USD = 1.50GBP.
But that's not correct, as I just checked current rates and they are about 1.3 USD to 1 GBP.
So you are right, thanks!

And if Nagra ever releases a new machine (perhaps for their 75th anniversary in a few years?!) it will surely cost north of $100K. I'm guessing around $175k to be in line with the Reference TT, with a lower priced HD unit to follow (as it will for the TT).

That means 1 GBP = $1.5 USD. The pound has never been below US$1

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

you´re reading the tables wrong:
the quote is how many dollars to equal/buy 1 GBP
so it´s basically been between 1,4 and 1,5 USD to the GBP

ex- financial trader
Leif

 

[Zeotrope]

your Studer is a 10th (or more) generation of Studer evolution of transport design and build. by 6 or 7 they were pretty good. by 10 they were the best. same for Ampex.

Metaxas only has 3 or 4 more generations to figure it out....then another 2 or 3 to perfect it. which does not mean it might not be a good quality playback deck. i have read positive things about it.

Don't forget that the Tourbillon is based on the Stellavox machines. Actually, the founder of Stellavox was reportedly involved with the Tourbillon development. So the tape path is an evolution from the Stellavox, and all of Kostas Metaxas' experience with not only Stellavox, but the other machines he owns.

 

[Zeotrope]

The Papillon apparently cost 45K Euro for a basic playback only 1/4" machine, all the way to 75K for a 1" full function machine. It can accommodate up to 15" reels. With the most up to date microprocessor controlling all the mechanical functions, I wonder how much better it is as compared to the last generation of the Ampexes, Studers, Nagras etc. I am actually surprised by the price. The Nagra T-Audio cost 23K GBP in 1983. According to the Bank of England inflation calculator, this is equal to 82.5K GBP today. I think the other studio machines of that era would cost similar amounts of money. However, Metaxas will only be selling 10 of the Papillons, after spending all this time and energy developing it. I wonder if he will build more if there is demand for it.

Hi, how do you know production of the Papillon is limited to 10 units? I agree that the price is quite fair. This is a modern version of the Ampexes and Studers of the past. It has all the benefits of the latest technology, which if you think about what a CPU could do in the '70s and '80s, vs today, is huge. Everything is designed to be worked on easily (note for example how the rollers and secured with visible hex screws). I have posted more thoughts in the Papillon thread.

 

[Zeotrope]

The only concern I have is, how long will the company be around ? Will there be spare parts and expertise to maintain the machines ? There is plenty of support for studio machines such as Studer, but I am not so sure about these machines. While they look beautiful, how reliable are they ? We know machines such as Studer A80, Nagra TA, Telefunken M15 etc. are indestructible.

Everything is meant to be easy to fix and replace. They are FAR simpler than the vintage machines. I wouldn't consider the vintage machines to be "indestructible" - they just have a network of repair techs who have experience maintaining them. Nagra, for one, is not servicing the TA anymore (as far as I can tell).
In 20 years you will have a much better chance at repairing a Metaxas than a Studer, is my guess.

 

[Zeotrope]

I was considering buying one but I did some due diligence and decided not to pursue that option. I will be meeting Christophe Martinez next month and I will have the chance to compare his TP-1000 against a Studer A80 VU.

Once you have played with a fully overhauled/upgraded master tape recorder (A80, A820, ATR 102, Nagra T), you will understand why we have high expectations.

I was considering the TP-1000 but the priceerformance ratio is just not there, relative to Mextaxas. When the TP was 10,000EUR, sure, but it's double that now. Things I didn't like about the TP-1000 and the company overall:
- it's one guy: Christophe, and it's a new company. That's risky. Metaxas has been around for over 40 years and his sons will takeover when the founder is no longer able to work.
- Metaxas founder has a ton more experience than Chris, both as a recording engineer and product engineer
- internal PSU, wifi, and touchscreen: these can't be great for the sound quality. I've heard firsthand how just having WiFi close to an audio circuit, especially a weak one, can damage SQ
- single capstan vs dual
- easier to work on, adjust and fix or upgrade the Metaxas

I'm sure the TP-1000 is great. You can probably get the price of the Tourbillon to be quite close to the TP-1000, depending on the dealers' willingness to negotiate.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

Kostas Metaxas has a long list of excellent recordings and knows his way around
He´s always been up there in the front of things....amps, speakers etc

 

[Zeotrope]

Personally, I do not love the look of the Tourbillon or Papillon. I don't "hate" the look, but I can't say I love it -- perhaps in more subdued colors they look better. Obviously, this is personal preference, but I don't see his work and think "OMG, I must have it!".
I think his approach of trying to fuse art with music makes a lot of sense. Will his pieces sell at Sothebys one day alongside say a Kondo Japan Ongaku? Maybe... I guess we will see.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

might well end up in Museum of Modern Art in NY

 

[dcc]

I was considering the TP-1000 but the priceerformance ratio is just not there, relative to Mextaxas. When the TP was 10,000EUR, sure, but it's double that now. Things I didn't like about the TP-1000 and the company overall:
- it's one guy: Christophe, and it's a new company. That's risky. Metaxas has been around for over 40 years and his sons will takeover when the founder is no longer able to work.
- Metaxas founder has a ton more experience than Chris, both as a recording engineer and product engineer
- internal PSU, wifi, and touchscreen: these can't be great for the sound quality. I've heard firsthand how just having WiFi close to an audio circuit, especially a weak one, can damage SQ
- single capstan vs dual
- easier to work on, adjust and fix or upgrade the Metaxas

I'm sure the TP-1000 is great. You can probably get the price of the Tourbillon to be quite close to the TP-1000, depending on the dealers' willingness to negotiate.

I already have a Studer A80 RC MKII and instead of buying a Tourbillon, I got a Nagra IVS with a QGB module. I won't be buying the TP-1000 but I am still interested by a direct comparison with a Studer A80 VU.

My tech looked at the Tourbillon and was not impressed at all. He has 40 years experience of tape deck maintenance mainly Studer, Nagra and Revox.

Double capstan is not necessarily a good thing.

I guess you have never threaded a tape as the Tourbillon is just a nightmare on that front which is big No No in my case.

 

[Foxbat]

It was designed that way for the sake of looking differently.

There is good reason most serious machines look similar to one another - in their case their shape simply reflects their function... which is kind of the same for all of them.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

everyone would understand once they´ve developed the technique of "throwing" the tape around the rollers.....

 

[Foxbat]

Perhaps one of the best machines successfully combining the elegance with very simple and smooth operation is Lyrec Frida - I think it is unmatched in that regard. And it does so without any frivolous "beautification". It is all natural beauty, so to speak - its subtle form fully reflects its function, and the result is striking.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I had 2 Fridas, but sold due to lack of spare parts and knowledgable service people. Great sound from HRX cards
Norwegian National Broadcasting bought 70 of theese for 1984 Olympics in Lillehammer

 

[Zeotrope]

I already have a Studer A80 RC MKII and instead of buying a Tourbillon, I got a Nagra IVS with a QGB module. I won't be buying the TP-1000 but I am still interested by a direct comparison with a Studer A80 VU.

My tech looked at the Tourbillon and was not impressed at all. He has 40 years experience of tape deck maintenance mainly Studer, Nagra and Revox.

Double capstan is not necessarily a good thing.

I guess you have never threaded a tape as the Tourbillon is just a nightmare on that front which is big No No in my case.

I’m more interested in getting the Papillon which looks like it has an easier tape path to thread.
I’m not surprised a technician would not like something new, that won’t give him the same level of repair business. They like what they know.

 

[Foxbat]

That IS a consideration, but it is also an easy sale, as there are so few of them around and people are constantly looking for them.

I thought the company was still there... no?