Mixing Sealed Speakers With Ported Subwoofers, Ported Speakers With Sealed Subwoofers

[Ron Resnick]

Is it a problem to add ported subwoofers to a system with sealed loudspeakers? For example, adding Wilson Audio Master Subsonics or Submerges to Magico M6s or to YG Sonjas?

Is it a problem to add sealed subwoofers to a system with ported loudspeakers? For example, adding REL subwoofers or Gobel Sovereign subwoofers or Magico Titan subwoofers to Rockport Lyras or to Wilson Audio Alexx Vs?

What are the pros and cons of mixing loudspeaker and subwoofer designs in terms of sealed and ported versus matching loudspeaker and subwoofer designs?

 

[M-dB]

If the DSP low frequency calibration tones are played through both your main speakers and properly positioned subwoofer/s simultaneously and the processing calibrates the subwoofer, any combination of sub and speaker should be excellent.

The only exception may occur with -6dB sub-bass systems.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Let's put DSP aside, as some people do not like DSP subwoofing.

 

[exupgh12]

Successfully combining ported subwoofers with sealed speakers or sealed subwoofers with ported speakers is feasible but necessitates attention to harmonizing bass outputs.

This approach extends bass capabilities and offers flexibility but poses integration challenges and potential sound clashes due to varying bass characteristics and room effects.

Achieving optimal performance will involve careful calibration, considering room acoustics, personal preferences, and dedicating time to fine-tune the system. Testing different placements and settings is crucial for seamless integration and superior sound quality.

 

[ecwl]

To me, the challenges of merging ported sub+sealed speakers or ported speakers+sealed subs are:
1) You may get phase cancellation from the port and sealed drivers (but even if you use sealed+sealed, and you place the subwoofer at the wrong spot or with the wrong setting, you can still get phase cancellation)
2) There could be a slight decoherence to the sound because ported and sealed bass sounds slightly different (although many people don’t notice it or even likes it, i mean that’s how ported speakers are to start with, the lowest bass is/sounds ported and the mid-upper bass is/does not)
I think as others have already said, if integrated properly, it should be fine.
Of course, what does “optimal” integration of subwoofer and speakers mean? That to me is the more complex and interesting question. Because I personally believe even that is quite subjective.

 

[audiobomber]

Is it a problem to add ported subwoofers to a system with sealed loudspeakers? For example, adding Wilson Audio Master Subsonics or Submerges to Magico M6s or to YG Sonjas?

Ported speakers (including subs) have compromised transient performance compared to a sealed enclosure, but there's no particular problem running a ported sub with sealed mains. The sub will sound as it always does.

The problem occurs at the crossover point. A ported speaker running full range has a natural 12dB Butterworth roll-off at the bottom end. If you add a sub with a fourth order filter, which most are, it will be acoustically behind the mains at the crossover point and will sound slow. There are three solutions:
1. Use a second-order low pass crossover on the subwoofer, at or near the main speakers' -3dB point
2. Roll off the main speakers at 12dB per octave at or near their -3dB point, and roll the subs in at the same frequency with a fourth order low pass crossover.
3. Move the sub closer to the listening chair to account for the delayed sound.

Is it a problem to add sealed subwoofers to a system with ported loudspeakers? For example, adding REL subwoofers or Gobel Sovereign subwoofers or Magico Titan subwoofers to Rockport Lyras or to Wilson Audio Alexx Vs?

This can get messy if the main speakers and subs are reproducing the same frequencies, because the sound from the ports in the main speakers is in opposite phase to the sub output, causing lumpy bass response. If you want to use ported mains, with any sub, ported or sealed, bring the sub in at the -6dB point of the mains, and use a fourth-order high pass on the sub.

What are the pros and cons of mixing loudspeaker and subwoofer designs in terms of sealed and ported versus matching loudspeaker and subwoofer designs?

It's all about the crossover. The transition from a woofer to a subwoofer should be treated the same way as the transition from a tweeter to a midrange. The target is a perfect Butterworth or Linkwitz-Riley cross. If the mains are rolling off at 12db, 18dB or 24dB, roll the subs in with the same slope.

If you are rolling off sealed speakers with external crossover or DSP filters, you can use a second-order high pass on the mains at their -3dB point, creating a 4th-order Linkwitz Riley slope, which you would need to match in the sub's low pass filter.

If you are using an external crossover or DSP filters with ported mains, use a fourth order filter on both the mains and subs, but stay at least 1.5 octaves above the port frequency.

 

[thedudeabides]

Ported subs may play "lower" but may be slower than the sealed subs. I say may be because it all depends on design, implementation and system integration. You can make an argument for both designs depending on use and personal preferences.

 

[joey_v]

While nothing is absolute, I prefer my speakers and subs non ported in general. But if I had ported speakers, I would not mind sealed subs. But all that means is that I don't prefer ported subwoofers for music.

 

[sigbergaudio]

The easiest combination is both subwoofer and speakers sealed.

Properly designed ported subwoofers with sealed speakers is not typically problematic either

If you have ported speakers, stuff something in the port to convert them to sealed, (regardless if the subwoofer is ported or sealed) to reduce the low frequency output of the speakers and reduce the risk of cancellations / phase issues in the crossover area.

So

1) Sealed speakers + Sealed subs = OK
2) Sealed speakers + Ported subs = OK
3) Ported speakers + Sealed subs = Seal the speakers with a wool sock or something = OK
4) Ported speakers + Ported subs = Seal the speakers with a wool sock or something = OK

If you have the ability to highpass the speakers and can allow the subwoofers to play higher up in frequency, this is generally beneficial as well.

 

[audioguy]

The issue with combining ported and sealed is about (more than likely) different phase responses at the crossover (and on both sides of the crossover), and sometimes, the only way to properly address that is with all pass filters - which means DSP is required.

There is, as usual, no free lunch.

 

[sigbergaudio]

The issue with combining ported and sealed is about (more than likely) different phase responses at the crossover (and on both sides of the crossover), and sometimes, the only way to properly address that is with all pass filters - which means DSP is required.

There is, as usual, no free lunch.

Or doing what I suggested.

 

[audiobomber]

The easiest combination is both subwoofer and speakers sealed.

Properly designed ported subwoofers with sealed speakers is not typically problematic either

If you have ported speakers, stuff something in the port to convert them to sealed, regardless if the subwoofer is ported or sealed to reduce the low frequency output of the speakers and reduce the risk of cancellations / phase issues in the crossover area.

So

1) Sealed speakers + Sealed subs = OK
2) Sealed speakers + Ported subs = OK
3) Ported speakers + Sealed subs = Seal the speakers with a wool sock or something = OK
4) Ported speakers + Ported subs = Seal the speakers with a wool sock or something = OK

If you have the ability to highpass the speakers and can allow the subwoofers to play higher up in frequency, this is generally beneficial as well.

I agree with your approach. The only issue is finding a transparent highpass filter.

 

[M-dB]

Let's put DSP aside, as some people do not like DSP subwoofing.

When I read these product suggestions I misunderstood the question.

Wilson Audio Subsonic: control processor. Submerge and Lokie: DSP.
Gobel Sovereign: DSP engine and control.
Majico Titan: DSP Control Center.

All the best with your search.

 

[Dishman442]

The easiest combination is both subwoofer and speakers sealed.

Properly designed ported subwoofers with sealed speakers is not typically problematic either

If you have ported speakers, stuff something in the port to convert them to sealed, (regardless if the subwoofer is ported or sealed) to reduce the low frequency output of the speakers and reduce the risk of cancellations / phase issues in the crossover area.

So

1) Sealed speakers + Sealed subs = OK
2) Sealed speakers + Ported subs = OK
3) Ported speakers + Sealed subs = Seal the speakers with a wool sock or something = OK
4) Ported speakers + Ported subs = Seal the speakers with a wool sock or something = OK

If you have the ability to highpass the speakers and can allow the subwoofers to play higher up in frequency, this is generally beneficial as well.

Brown, blue, or black wool sock? Knee high or will that over damp the output?

 

[sigbergaudio]

Brown, blue, or black wool sock? Knee high or will that over damp the output?

I think knee high will be fine if you can fit it, and the color will be of limited consequence. The wool must be high-end wool of course.

 

[Dishman442]

I think knee high will be fine if you can fit it, and the color will be of limited consequence. The wool must be high-end wool of course.

Excellent response, thank you. As I can only afford 1 sub, I’m off to buy a single quality wool knee high sock to stuff the port of my left channel Wilson DAW as the sub is on the left.

 

[audioquest4life]

SVS Audio recommends matching a sealed subwoofer slope to the usual ported speaker slope, which is 24db. Default slope for most sealed subs is about 12db. Of course, matching the low pass frequency (EQ/DSP), will require careful measurements. If no on-board or external DSP is used, then the built-in sub crossover setting needs to be matched to the speaker's lower frequency response so as to have a smooth transition. With my previous B&W Nautilus 800's, taking the lower frequency response of the B&W's, which is 32hz, and doubling that to 64hz on the sub seemed to be blend very well as measured with my Velodyne SMS-1 sub EQ and calibration device. I had both, a B&W 15" and an HSU 15" sealed subs.

Updated system and larger room eliminated the need for subs, for the most part. However, being a bass addict, I have 4 13" sealed subs that I plan to experiment with on my ported speakers.