Some photos of my WE 124 clones. They aren’t really clones because they use Acrosound TO-330 output transformers and have mostly modern parts including Copoer V-Caps and Audio Note Silver Tantalum resistors in critical spots.
Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers
- Thread starter thomask
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Live acoustic recordings are my favorite way to evaluate speakers. If you know a performance because you were there and you have a good recording of it, then I find that's a really way to judge important things like instrument separation, timbre of the instruments, presence and detail, soundstage. I would say it does help. But I think there are other ways to evaluate speakers.
I have preciously few recordings were I was present that did not end up being SO different that I wondered if I really was present...I do agree it is a great anchor point if available, knowing how music sounds live is more important for me. To me the devil in the detail of sound is in the under- and overtones, the tension being kept in pauses, the leading and trailing edges of dynamics, to hear that low end reverb under a piano string lingering in space and hearing it decay in a natural way and within its original acoustic environment. To hear the diction of a singer like f.e. Bernarda Fink like she sounds in the Concertgebouw, or to hear at home how Arcadi Volodos plays with the overtones in the space above him while seemingly busy playing the pieces he plays, in the same manner as I heard him do live.
New spikes? Are they a 60 degree angle and not a 45? Fantastic! Where can I get this innovation???
Come on, let's get serious. Wilson makes great sounding speakers with excellent paint jobs and metal work. Innovation is marketing, the real value is in the finishing. Ever eat Jumbo Shrimp? They're just shrimp.
I would say the appetite for 'new' is often an impediment for acheiving 'great'. It would suprise me a lot if Wilson developed a new phenolic for their speakers but that doesn't lessen the benefit *if* they found the best sounding countertop material to use. Why does it have to be special/proprietary? We know why...
Yes, we all know that the recently developed Wilson speakers sound great and are an improvement over the previous ones because of the paint job ...
IMHO innovation in the high-end is understanding the variables that create a better sound and then playing with the very small variables that create it, avoiding any changes that compromise sound quality. This needs new materials, advanced electromechanical software simulation, measuring tools and ability to properly analyze data, excellent material knowledge and top manufacturing precision machines. Surely to all this we need to add a panel with great ears and a vision on what audiophiles enjoy.
And yes, I would love if a new paint coating could make my XLF's sound like XVX's, although I am very happy with them!
Yes in general you are correct but speaker parts are made of much better quality materials today.
Very true....but does that mean better sound? A Carbon-Klang violin is made out of carbon fiber, but does it sound better than a Stradivarius?
I'm totally unconvinced that advanced materials make better sounding speakers. I've never heard a speaker that sounded better because if was made out of extruded aluminum or countertop material.
I think it's less complicated than that.
My hypothesis is there are naturalists and synthesists. They have different bases of preference. Naturalists use live acoustic music as a reference for assessing reproduction. Synthesists use what appeals to them as their guide even when it does not resemble what they hear in the concert hall.
Peter, you've always been a very careful writer.
There's lots of stuff made from various acrylic polymers (Corian), mineral polymers (X-material) and other materials bonded under extremely high pressure. Wilson's various materials combine damping and rigidity to yield a narrow band of monotonic resonance. There are different versions for specific functions. Recently they formulated a version that converts energy into heat.
Other speakers are made from the same material my wife uses to cover her pies. It's well known that some speakers are made with a version of the stuff they use for fence posts. I don't think there is any given material that is ideal for making a speaker; it's more about implementation.
I will go even simpler...there are those who can make the connection in their minds with live and there are those that can't...not as careful as PeterA I admit but...I think it's less complicated than that.
My hypothesis is there are naturalists and synthesists. They have different bases of preference. Naturalists use live acoustic music as a reference for assessing reproduction. Synthesists use what appeals to them as their guide even when it does not resemble what they hear in the concert hall.
Peter, you've always been a very careful writer.
Yeah, but they're...JUMBO...
Seriously though, I think it is innovative to take a material that no one else was using for speaker cabinetry and to implement it because it has better control of cabinet vibrations. Re purposing of a material to a new use is still innovation...not just the invention of the material. Otherwise you would have to say that no one did anything innovative since man first smelted copper and tin. Everything that came after was obvious and derivative, right?
I am not a fan of their speakers in general as you know (however I did like the original X1) but I don't think their only innovation is marketing. Their bigger speakers are quite low distortion and not overly concerned with frequency response...kind of like the speakers you and I like. Especially the original X1, which was a true 95db and very easy load, was tube friendly.
I suppose the difference between us is you put it in terms of ability (can/can't) and I put it in terms of preference (choice). Maybe you're right - I don't know. I grew up with live music but for a while I was taken with the audiophile 'virtues' of the magazines, as if home audio was an art form apart. I realized that route only took me to the last pretty thing I saw, and I returned to my roots.
"See her picture in a thousand places 'cause she's this year's girl."
-EC
My TT is partly made of Corian countertop material, and it sits on a repurposed wood chopping block, sometimes when i am having a senior moment, i can't remember if i wanted to play a record, or make a sandwich !
There is innovation and there is differentiation. In the consumer goods business, innovation is new invention. Differentiation is just being different enough than your competition to stand out. Innovation is R&D driven and differentiation is marketing driven.
Examples of Innovation in speakers: Quad ESL, Maggie Ribbons, Tannoy Dual Concentric Drivers, etc.
Examples of differentiation: using different readily available materials to make cabinets and drivers.
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