Modern speakers vs Vintage speakers

[bonzo75]

Sorry, the TAD 4003 is a modern compression driver, it even uses Be as a diaphragm material does it not? It has been optimized based on decades of work on compression drivers. Just because it has been out of production for a few years doesn't make it "vintage"

Goto also used Be back in 1969.

Just because something is after WE does not make it modern.

 

[morricab]

Those horns everything is new - drivers, horn material, and in some the design too.

In a dual FLH using vintage drivers, but a modern horn material for the mid-upper range - ok, I would still call that based on vintage, and again modernized is different from modern.

horns universum, for example, is modern drivers, modern material, and importantly a design that is purposefully made to fit in smaller rooms. AER would be modern even if it used wood instead of modern material

By that logic, very few vintage owners except for collector's are using authentic vintage. Most are modernizing vintage, maybe crossover components, some material here or there. Altecs that come out of the cinema sound plan ****

AER is basically a modernized Lowther...which dates from the 1920s. So modernized not modern by your own definitiion.

 

[morricab]

Goto also used Be back in 1969.

Just because something is after WE does not make it modern.

And the TAD 4003 was discontinued when? How many generations of CDs came before it? Your argument is nonsense.

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

In 2014, Cheung at Munich had 12a for the upper half, and 13a for the lower half, in each channel.

16a are often combined with woofers they just don't go low enough. They have a very nice midrange for strings and guitar, their metal resonance helps in that regard.

TGs double WE16 in a stereosetup does 80....NNNN subs takes it from there

 

[MarcelNL]

guys, can we can this pissing contest please?

IMHO this is not about a specific dat making something like a specific driver modern, or vintage but speakers as a whole.

Back in the day no closed systems or BR systems were used, cabinets became smaller with the entry into houses and even smaller with the entry into lesser homes. I;d say that vintage speakers were designed to resemble th ereal thing...later other design targets came into play and I happen to think that those targets threw us off target.

 

[MarcelNL]

TGs double WE16 in a stereosetup does 80....NNNN subs takes it from there

My Trionor did something like 50Hz in a flat-tish response but easily carried on until 35Hz...never missed much IMHO.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Sorry, the TAD 4003 is a modern compression driver, it even uses Be as a diaphragm material does it not? It has been optimized based on decades of work on compression drivers. Just because it has been out of production for a few years doesn't make it "vintage"

The first was 4001 from 1978 the 4003 came up 1989

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

and it is a giant step fw and is the only driver that we found that does 600-20K in my CD horn
Joseph Crowe has recently written about measurements and listening of 4003
I just mailed him and he was deeply impressed

TAD TD-4003 on ES-450 Biradial No.2184

In this blog post I test the TAD TD-4003 on ES-450 Biradial No.2184. Horn model No.2184 is specially designed for the TD-4003 which uses a 39mm diameter throat. The ES-450 biradial normally has a 50mm diameter throat which is model No.2183 for reference. In this blog post I will conduct a full...

josephcrowe.com

 

[DasguteOhr]

and it is a giant step fw and is the only driver that we found that does 600-20K in my CD horn
Joseph Crowe has recently written about measurements and listening of 4003
I just mailed him and he was deeply impressed

TAD TD-4003 on ES-450 Biradial No.2184

In this blog post I test the TAD TD-4003 on ES-450 Biradial No.2184. Horn model No.2184 is specially designed for the TD-4003 which uses a 39mm diameter throat. The ES-450 biradial normally has a 50mm diameter throat which is model No.2183 for reference. In this blog post I will conduct a full...

josephcrowe.com

Nice driver ,but its sounds too much like yamaha ns 1000 drivers not my cup of tea.is a personal opinion of mine, no need to generalize.
They were the first to use berylium fragile gem

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

your description better fits 4001

 

[DasguteOhr]

your description better fits 4001

No , i'm a big fan from tad 2001 when tad driver. You could listen to this all day more smoothness in sound

 

[Lagonda]

With JBL if you mentioned their modern drivers, or GPA Altecs, or today's Tannoy, I would agree. But TAD 4003 is the old driver, not new version of today's driver. The JBL Leif uses is the 2220a.

Leif measures in room response and adjusts bass frequencies using a class d amp with built in dsp. His subs are designed by a modern horn expert i would call Leifs system a modern design, is his TAD 4003 even considered vintage, hard to get yes, but vintage ?

 

[bonzo75]

Leif measures in room response and adjusts bass frequencies using a class d amp with built in dsp. His subs are designed by a modern horn expert i would call Leifs system a modern design, is his TAD 4003 even considered vintage, hard to get yes, but vintage ?

I mentioned the class D above in my post that The 300b is, the biamping with class D is not.

By vintage, if you strictly mean those made pre 1950s, then no and I don't support vintage either. If by Vintage, you extend it to later 1900s, then yes. I also look at it in terms of schools of thought - the lansing heritage, the same designer who did JBL moving on to design TAD.

Which is why there even exists a forum for lansing heritage covering TAD, JBL, Altec.

For me modern is a totally different school of thought that is shown in Wilson, YG, Magico, Raidho, etc. They also use modern material, designs.

Why do you think old designers did no measurements?

 

[Lagonda]

I mentioned the class D above in my post that The 300b is, the biamping with class D is not.

By vintage, if you strictly mean those made pre 1950s, then no and I don't support vintage either. If by Vintage, you extend it to later 1900s, then yes. I also look at it in terms of schools of thought - the lansing heritage, the same designer who did JBL moving on to design TAD.

Which is why there even exists a forum for lansing heritage covering TAD, JBL, Altec.

For me modern is a totally different school of thought that is shown in Wilson, YG, Magico, Raidho, etc. They also use modern material, designs.

Why do you think old designers did no measurements?

Maybe a lack of handheld measuring equipment !

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

No , i'm a big fan from tad 2001 when tad driver. You could listen to this all day more smoothness in soundView attachment 126610

first I had 4001 and 2001 in JMLC full rollback 270 and 2500
then I moved on to 2002 and 4003 in same horns
then I ditched the tweeter and changed to locally designed CD horn
600-20K, after 3 years testing and fine tuning
FLH lopassed at 550 to fill in correctly
this is with Powersoft Class D modules and DSP, both for FLH and subs(from 65 and down)
monday Rune from NNNN comes over to test Trent25, a "new" transmissionline sub, that´ll obliterate time alignment issues

Trent 25 - NNNN

nnnn.no

was just tested at house party for 600people......I will evaluate if it does tone and harmonics like my subhorns
if so, it´s a NO-BRAINER

 

[MarcelNL]

Hope it works for you, I never had much luck with adding a low end to any system....time coherence is an issue and speed of response too...yet WHEN it works it's great!

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

I have the best help in the business and it already works great.....left with 4msek between FLH and subhorn below 65, so not really possible to detect by ear
but if we can get to 0msk........but I´m not willing to sacrifice tonality or "harmonics" and differentiation ....

 

[DasguteOhr]

first I had 4001 and 2001 in JMLC full rollback 270 and 2500
then I moved on to 2002 and 4003 in same horns
then I ditched the tweeter and changed to locally designed CD horn
600-20K, after 3 years testing and fine tuning
FLH lopassed at 550 to fill in correctly
this is with Powersoft Class D modules and DSP, both for FLH and subs(from 65 and down)
monday Rune from NNNN comes over to test Trent25, a "new" transmissionline sub, that´ll obliterate time alignment issues

Trent 25 - NNNN

nnnn.no

was just tested at house party for 600people......I will evaluate if it does tone and harmonics like my subhorns
if so, it´s a NO-BRAINER

Look in ths video how good the curve is with this horn he build .the tad 2001 just play with more headroom, everything seems less strained. that's my feeling i love that thing.

Exsample vid female voice with a standard horn nothing special

P.S. you must look it at youtube direct, here is it much quieter ...strange

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

radial horns have inherent resonance due to relation between width and height.....
we did lots of experiments with radials and Iwatas....

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

hold a horn to your ear and listen to ambient noise in a room....if it sounds different than without a horn, it colors the sound