Modifications to Maximize Sound Quality of Studer A820 for Repro Only

[dminches]

I have Nick's very first 2 units he ever built and they have been upgraded to the latest/greatest. I have also added 2 bal. outputs with one transformer balanced and the other deferentially balanced. If I could find better, I certainly have the means to. I haven't found anything!

Bruce, can you explain the difference between the 2 and why you wanted 2 different ones?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hey Andromeda (name please),

Thanks for the reply. I've been trying to coax the best sound out of the tape machines I could afford for MANY years now.

I wouldn't begin to use the word "chewed out" for tape. You know that what is available now is dammed good (Don't you agree Mike L?). Can it be better? Maybe but only marginally. We have machines that handle (protect) the tape very nicely, heads that appear to "eek out" whatever the magnetic particles can tell us. And some dammed good (There I go again) electronics to process those the "tiny electrical signals". AND we have some great (tho expensive) source material.

From day one it was a rich man's hobby.

There was a discussion years back here in the annals about NEW tape machines, and musing about their potential benefits. I was skeptical then and still am that what we have can be "beaten". Now a few challengers may be arriving but I still think we're getting close to (asymptotically approaching) what the medium can offer. But then many are NEVER SATISFIED with the "old" -new MUST come and BE BETTER than what we currently have - if for no other reason than it's new.

And then there is, as my girlfriend calls it - the ever present, Dick-Measuring-Contest "effect".

I'm just trying to sit back and enjoy what I have.

"Keep your heads clean and your tails out"

Charles

Dear Charles,

Thank you very much for this detailed explanation and analysis.

So what would be your complete list of repro only modifications to an A820?

 

[Two-Track Analog]

One can have an opinion even if it isn’t based on personal experience. Ask Bruce. He may have listened to other tape pres.

I'll bring the King / Cello along with adapters for the Nina on my next visit and we'll compare the three. Perhaps I could even lug a 'portable' ATR with direct outs with me for a true real-time comparison

 

[dminches]

I'll bring the King / Cello along with adapters for the Nina on my next visit and we'll compare the three. Perhaps I could even lug a 'portable' ATR with direct outs with me for a true real-time comparison

Sounds like a plan.

Ron, you are welcomed to join to hear first hand.

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for asking the questions Ron.

I’m going to break my response into 3 categories: balanced vs unbalanced - object to follow; cable length (to which I will add “terminations”) and head amplification, with your referencing the fixed gain playback head preamp in the Studer A8XX recorder headblocks.
(...)

Thanks for such enlightening words about the subject.

I would add that, as far as I know Atmasphere can supply a true balanced system from tape head to speaker output - I have read Ralph last version of the preamplfier has very low noise and he his supplying tape equalization as an alternative, and long ago I had a fully balanced system from Audio Research - the LS5mk3 and VT150SE. We had to get a balancing device , the BL2 to use SE devices ...

I think that the reason Studer included an head amp close to the head is related to their professional vocation. They want some thing that has the lowest noise possible and predictable. Their machines are used to generate copies or work that will be distributed, not to play in audiophile systems according to our preferences. IMHO the argument that we use long wires in our turntables is valid for analog lovers but not for them. Vinyl is too far away from tape for a professional. They know we use the tonearm wire to tune our systems!

As audiophiles, we know that the proof of the pudding is in listening. Only listening we will know what is the like better. There are compromises fitting the amplifier in the head block, mainly due to available size and delivery of power supply.

Just my 2 cents on the subject - I do not own any of the super head preamplifier, although I listened several times to the Doshi at friend system.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sounds like a plan.

Ron, you are welcomed to join to hear first hand.

Thank you! Where are you located?

 

[dminches]

Thank you! Where are you located?

East coast, outside Philly.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Oh well. But I sincerely appreciate the invitation!

 

[stellavox]

Ron,

My “simple” suggestion is nothing new. Wire the playback head out to connectors and add an external preamp.

However, let’s discuss some fine print.

Where to mount the preamp? You could check with others like Mike L. to see how he/they did it – from pics it appears that his pre is on the floor next to his left-hand deck (on Stillpoints!).

I did wire out two A812’s and mounted my pre directly to the cowling on the underside of the transport mechanism. Found I could drop the wires from the headblock “straight down” and into the pre through a hole drilled in the cowling. This got the total cable length down to no more than 18”. Another possibility is to get a shelf or table under the transport to support the preamp and bring the head cables out the same way.

Other considerations – do you ever consider recording with the deck? If so, you might want to have a switch added to the headblock that switches the output of the PB head to either the internal or external electronics. This can allow the meters to work on playback, with no other modifications. On the decks I converted, I did tap the output of my pre and feed it to the meter electronics in the bridge thru an added selector switch so you could monitor the level of either playback “choice”. However, with switching the head output you've added an additional "impediment?" for those “tiny signals”. Though I’ve never heard of a problem from those who have done it.

For a long while, there have been a number of threads relating to “improved” electronics, either on-card modifications or via whole new cards. There is a thread right now on Audionirvana relating to the A80. I don’t know how one “vouches for” the sonic results of any of these. From my own experience: like what ML did for the A80, any “improvements” should include both the reproduction AND attendant power supply circuitry.

THANKS and best wishes navigating your journey. Fortunately there are a number of folks who have made it to a safe and worthwhile landing!

Charles

 

[Ron Resnick]

All good suggestions, thank you!

 

[rockitman]

Ron,

If your set on the best A820 available, buy one from Fred Thal with his built in head output card and buy a Doshi. That way you can playback perfect spec Studer repro and Doshi....$60k all in....

 

[Tango]

Ron,

If your set on the best A820 available, buy one from Fred Thal with his built in head output card and buy a Doshi. That way you can playback perfect spec Studer repro and Doshi....$60k all in....

I thought he only sells his fully mod A80 at $80k.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thank you, Christian, but I am exploring a single head repro only solution, with other desirable modifications (hence this thread), which does not involve an ATAE Model One or Model Two because, as Tang says, they are around $80,000.

 

[rockitman]

I thought he only sells his fully mod A80 at $80k.

Ouch...I thought the machine went for the $40-50k range.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Perhaps Fred can explain his product options . . .

 

[Fred Thal]

Perhaps Fred can explain his product options . . .

Hi Ron,

Thank you for your interest in ATAE.

We manufacture two products, the Model One and Model Two reproducers.

System pricing starts at $81,000.

There's introductory information on the website.

ataudioeng.com

We also manufacture our own headblocks for our reproducers.

Unfortunately, our headblocks do not fit onto the old Studer A820 and A80 recording machines, without extensive modification. So we do not sell these headblocks separately to the public.