AK (hot rodded) Ampex ATR-102's w/MR-70 Preamps replaces my Studers.

[Mike Lavigne]

These cards are as good (Sounding/Measuring) as Jeff says they are.....

Congrats Mike... Andrew's work is top notch...

i would assume it will be as good as the deck it's installed on, or as bad. looks like a transparent card. wish i had had it for my Studer A-820's.

and thanks Bruce, really enjoying Andrew's work.

 

[c1ferrari]

Hi Ki,

No, I meant Stop, as at least on my 3xx and 4xx series machines pressing Play while spooling does not do anything - it is disabled. You always need to press Stop first.

Problem is those machines spool very fast, so the pros always shuttle the FF and Rew to slow the tape down before hitting Stop. I usually do that when going full speed. It it barely moves I allow myself some leeway and go directly to Stop.

ATR transports frighten me.

 

[c1ferrari]

Hi Mike,

Your room looks so strange without the A-820's! Enjoy your ATR's...I'm sure they will provide immense listening pleasure.

 

[Foxbat]

ATR transports frighten me.

They are true pro machines, so some experience is required, but once learned they become pussycats. But the way they spin 14" reels can, indeed, be frightening.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

ATR transports frighten me.

hi Sam,

the ATR-102 transport should not frighten you, different than those 3xx and 4xx Ampex's. especially those ATR-102's tweaked by AK. the best tape pack i have seen in library wind. and super quiet mechanically even in 30ips. not as silky smooth stopping and starting as the A-820, but very robust and built like a tank.

a month in and i'm not yet all the way comfortable and not yet developed the muscle memory using the ATR......the sequence and feel of things.

i miss the elegance of the Studers, but appreciate the attributes of the AK ATR's.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

Your room looks so strange without the A-820's! Enjoy your ATR's...I'm sure they will provide immense listening pleasure.

yes; i'm still adapting to the look of the stealthy, all business ATR's verses my crown jewel like Studers (which are still sitting in my 'other' room for another week before they leave for their new home). variety is the spice of life.

both are remarkable machines and love them both.

i'd say i'm completely smitten with the look of the Ampex MR-70 preamps. can't wait till i have all 4 of them. Just got a new to me (old) rack for them.

 

[rad]

Hi Mike,

Looking great! Andrew does & did a great job for you!

Muscle memory will come with the ATR, I agree with you on the elegance of the Studers but I to love the attributes of the ATR / MR70's
I have put all my equipment on my homemade racks ( heavy mass), & installed the RevOpods under the MR70's, highly recommended.
Looking forward to your impressions as you proceed with this journey. I know I have been memorized by the combo!

 

[c1ferrari]

They are true pro machines, so some experience is required, but once learned they become pussycats. But the way they spin 14" reels can, indeed, be frightening.

My first taste of pro recorders/reproducers was courtesy of Oasis Mastering circa 15 years ago. There, Eddy Schreyer described the differences between the Studer A-820 and ATR-102 to me. He observed the former was smoother and the latter was punchier. I had not and still do not have a point of reference for these descriptions from an ME's perspective and experience; however, upon demonstration of each device's tape handling ability, I quickly selected the Studer. IMO, tape handling is supreme. In the realm of "Everything Counts" - how well the machine pulls tape past the heads is ultimate. Eddy said I could have either deck, but he was keeping one.

 

[c1ferrari]

hi Sam,

the ATR-102 transport should not frighten you, different than those 3xx and 4xx Ampex's. especially those ATR-102's tweaked by AK. the best tape pack i have seen in library wind. and super quiet mechanically even in 30ips. not as silky smooth stopping and starting as the A-820, but very robust and built like a tank.

a month in and i'm not yet all the way comfortable and not yet developed the muscle memory using the ATR......the sequence and feel of things.

i miss the elegance of the Studers, but appreciate the attributes of the AK ATR's.

I hear ya', Mike! I'm thinking of trying some ATR-102's, too. My focus is exciting my itch for recording. Neumann has these M 49 V mics that I simply "need" to get my hands on before more tape decks! There's been some discussion of tape electronics which sound promising; however, A-820's appear to be incompatible at this time.

Looking forward to hearing more of your impressions as you journey along the analog tape path.

 

[Foxbat]

My first taste of pro recorders/reproducers was courtesy of Oasis Mastering circa 15 years ago. There, Eddy Schreyer described the differences between the Studer A-820 and ATR-102 to me. He observed the former was smoother and the latter was punchier. I had not and still do not have a point of reference for these descriptions from an ME's perspective and experience; however, upon demonstration of each device's tape handling ability, I quickly selected the Studer. IMO, tape handling is supreme. In the realm of "Everything Counts" - how well the machine pulls tape past the heads is ultimate. Eddy said I could have either deck, but he was keeping one.

I would describe their tape handling as "unsure" and "decisive"

I have both brands, but ATR is definitely my favorite. More innovative.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

the last 2 days listening to tape 'only'. yesterday 1/2" MR-70 exclusively, almost exhausting my remaining 1/2" titles i had not yet listened to. pretty much over the moon about what i'm hearing. listened to my 1/2" 15ips Sgt. Peppers (have no idea of the provenance) and was gobsmacked. a powerful experience with so many emotions to deal with (i was 16 years old when it came out). hearing way into the music and mix.

this morning switched to the 'stock' AK 'hotrod' ATR-102 and doing 1/4" tapes not played in years. have quite a few classical titles i had not heard in a while and they sound fresh and new. might have been the same on the Studer too. right now listening to a really great jazz tape i had not played in forever; 1979 recording from Black and Blue records; "Oliver Jackson Trio, featuring Cliff Smalls & Leonard Gaskin"....even though a studio recording, very immediate and live sounding. realism defined. it pulls you in.

curious how the 1/4" MR-70 will compare? have to wait a month or so to find out.

 

[c1ferrari]

I would describe their tape handling as "unsure" and "decisive"

I have both brands, but ATR is definitely my favorite. More innovative.

Heh!

 

[jazdoc]

Listened to Mike’s new toys today…Wow! Congratulations my friend

 

[srs148]

…There, Eddy Schreyer described the differences between the Studer A-820 and ATR-102 to me. He observed the former was smoother and the latter was punchier.

I'd agree with the assessment that the ATR is punchier than the A820, though versus smooth, I'd characterize the Studer A810/12/20 sonics as slightly veiled and not quite as dynamic. Personal opinion, of course.

i would assume it will be as good as the deck it's installed on, or as bad. looks like a transparent card. wish i had had it for my Studer A-820's.

and thanks Bruce, really enjoying Andrew's work.

@Mike Lavigne - it's a shame you're shipping both A820s out since I'm pressing @NextGen to adapt the NextGen circuitry for use in Studer machines that use the 1.820.xxx series of cards (A810, A812, A820, and for the lucky few owners, the A816) as there's a much larger market for those machines versus the A80R/RC. The challenge is the differences in accessing the card cages of each machine and the headblock-mounted preamp boards that would need to be bypassed. So it wouldn't be the plug & play solution that it is with the A80, but it's certainly doable and I think we'll see the product introduced within the next year or so. Apologies if I'm speaking out of turn, Jeff .

 

[dminches]

I have never owned an Ampex RTR so I can’t comment on their sound but neither of my stock Studers sound as good as my Doshi tape preamp. I love the Studers’ transports (and the Technics RS-1500 tape handling as well), but the sound doesn’t compare.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I'd agree with the assessment that the ATR is punchier than the A820, though versus smooth, I'd characterize the Studer A810/12/20 sonics as slightly veiled and not quite as dynamic. Personal opinion, of course.

overall agree to a degree, but when you add the factory Studer Trafoless output cards to the A-820 (all three of my A-820's had these), the sound becomes more micro-dynamic and vivid. so more like the original stock ATR i had, but also more refined.

@Mike Lavigne - it's a shame you're shipping both A820s out since I'm pressing @NextGen to adapt the NextGen circuitry for use in Studer machines that use the 1.820.xxx series of cards (A810, A812, A820, and for the lucky few owners, the A816) as there's a much larger market for those machines versus the A80R/RC. The challenge is the differences in accessing the card cages of each machine and the headblock-mounted preamp boards that would need to be bypassed. So it wouldn't be the plug & play solution that it is with the A80, but it's certainly doable and I think we'll see the product introduced within the next year or so. Apologies if I'm speaking out of turn, Jeff .

i understand. the A-820 is a complicated machine. i do wish all A-820 owners the best and hope you can offer them this path for an alternative step up. my A-820 buyer will be getting my King Cello tape repro with them. so he is already a step up. not suggesting one way or the other how the King Cello compares with your alternative. i have no idea.

my selling my A-820's was to go to completely custom versions of the ATR-102, not any sort of sideways move. and a big jump up in cost too. so my move is no slight to the A-820, but a leap to something different and unique.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

one thing i've discovered with the AK 'hotrod' ATR-102's is that with both AK MR 70 preamps, and my AK ATR-102 fired up, i am reaching the limits of my 20 amp breaker for that outlet leg inside my Equi-=Tech Wall Panel System. so i likely need to install a fresh breaker.

turns out the stock power supply of the ATR-102 uses 4 times as much current as the stock A-820's. maybe a good reason why the ATR-102 seems punchier. it's throwing more current at the issue. i realize i'm connecting dots above my level of understanding. but it's likely there is some cause and effect going on.

before with 3 Studer A-820's and the King Cello all connected to that same 4 gang outlet and all powered up, i never had any issues.

 

[dminches]

You are drawing a lot of juice. Those preamps must really need a lot of power.

Do you use special breakers in your panel or just the stock one?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You are drawing a lot of juice. Those preamps must really need a lot of power.

Do you use special breakers in your panel or just the stock one?

'AK' suspects that the 20 amp circuit breaker is weak, as the ATR-102 power supply draws around 500-600 watts, and each MR-70 draws around 150 watts each; but the shut off surge of all three has tripped the breaker a couple times. the circuit breaker is the original from Equi=tech, and AK will replace it. not sure the quality or brand. i'll let AK figure it out. there should not be an issue, but they do draw more than i would have thought. and soon i will have 4 MR-70 preamps (two more for the 1/4" heads) instead of 2. i can access another outlet on a separate lightly used breaker if i need to. so i can figure out a long term solution one way or another.

 

[Tom B.]

'AK' suspects that the 20 amp circuit breaker is weak, as the ATR-102 power supply draws around 500-600 watts, and each MR-70 draws around 150 watts each; but the shut off surge of all three has tripped the breaker a couple times. the circuit breaker is the original from Equi=tech, and AK will replace it. not sure the quality or brand. i'll let AK figure it out. there should not be an issue, but they do draw more than i would have thought. and soon i will have 4 MR-70 preamps (two more for the 1/4" heads) instead of 2. i can access another outlet on a separate lightly used breaker if i need to. so i can figure out a long term solution one way or

Despite their overly-robust power supplies, stock MR70 channels typically draw just a bit under 60 watts in Record - a bit less in PB (since the record circuitry B+ is switched only when actively recording). Fused at .75A/channel.

An entire 2-TK MR70 machine only draws about 3.5 amps from a 117v line - and the load remains fairly constant in use.