More Consensus That Streaming Is An Inferior Format & Not High End?

[Amir]

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, I respectfully disagree with most of it.

First, to my ears the MSB Select II sounds too analytical. While it gets very close to real music it doesn’t seem to have the same level of genuine warmth and soul as vinyl does. This said, it’s still very very good, but to my ears EMM Labs DA2V2, Ideon Absolute + Time, Vitus Masterpeice, and now that I’ve listened to a friend‘s Lampi Horizon all sound better to me …

Second, IMO, it’s disingenuous to say a properly set up digital rig is 30% away from a properly set up vinyl rig. If one’s digital is properly set up then it can sound like a different Cart on a vinyl rig. While they may sound “different,“ I wouldn’t use the word “better“ to describe one over the other.

Third, I don’t like digital records either. So, here we agree.

Audire
I am distributor of Vitus Audio in Iran and I love Vitus Audio Products but in High End no Equipment is bright or analitycal. MSB DAC is not analitycal and MSB in proper setup is OK.
I remember my friend listened to CEC DAC DA3.0 and told me CEC DAC is bright. CEC uses MSB dac module and Thrax Audio designed CEC dac for CEC company. I visited the system and said I hear some compression and I said it seems there is signal clipping between DAC and Pre. My guess was right because the CEC output voltage was 6.5v rms and the Pre input range was less than 4 volts rms.

if you hear bright analitycal sound from MSB you should be smart and find the problem , no DAC is bright.

Audio is a complex game and without right analyses all judgments are wrong.
Expert/smart audiophiles like david can help us for better analysys

 

[Ron Resnick]

but the main problem of digital sound is not about DACs, it is not more than 20%.

What is the objective basis or the comparative subjective basis by which you arrived at this percentage?

 

[Amir]

I think this makes no sense on its face.



From this list of DACs how many direct A/B comparisons have you yourself made? Which pairs from this list have you yourself actually compared directly in the same system?



Isn't David of the view that high-end music streamers don't matter (meaning that an iPad music streamer doesn't sound inferior to a high-end streamer (all else being equal))?

Ron No DAC is bright

The DAC list I have listened:

Mark Levinson
krell
Audio research
Audio Note
Accuphase
Weiss
Pathos
Shanling
dCS
TAD
Vitus
CEC
Ear yoshino
AMR
Gryphon
Devialet internal dac

 

[hopkins]

Has anyone here compared the playback of a same album with its digital copy ripped (with the same turntable and a high quality ADC), and then played back using the same system (but inserting a DAC) ?

 

[Amir]

What is the objective basis or the comparative subjective basis by which you arrived at this percentage?

Comparing DAC A vs DAC B while Comparing Record high quality AAD vs low quality Record DDD.
The contrast between DACs are far less than Contrast between digital records

 

[Amir]

Has anyone here compared the playback of a same album with its digital copy ripped (with the same turntable and a high quality ADC), played back using the same system (but inserting a DAC) ?

If so, you may find that the differences are in fact quite small...

This is a good question

 

[Alrainbow]

I think his 30% is his honest view and I get his point
set up well is 70% and a much larger argument

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron No DAC is bright

The DAC list I have listened:

Mark Levinson
krell
Audio research
Audio Note
Accuphase
Weiss
Pathos
Shanling
dCS
TAD
Vitus
CEC
Ear yoshino
AMR
Gryphon
Devialet internal dac

Thank for your reply, but this does not answer my specific question. Which of these DACs have you heard in a direct comparison in the same system?

I am trying to understand the basis of your view that one DAC cannot sound more "analytical" than another DAC (which I deduce you believe if no DAC sounds analytical).

 

[Alrainbow]

This is a good question

From what I’ve read the process can’t allow this as
mastering for analog and digital is not the same

 

[hopkins]

From what I’ve read the process can’t allow this as
mastering for analog and digital is not the same

I was referring to comparing a given LP with its own rip...(ripped using the same turntable).

 

[bryans]

Reading through this post is another example of why I tell people to use forums, mags, etc. to find out about products. Use your ears to determine what product is right for you.

Everyone has a product that they like based on a number of variables. I'm amazed that some seem to make buying decisions based on what someone else writes instead of what they hear for themselves.

There are a ton of awesome gear and I'm sure one can find a product that works for them.

 

[Alrainbow]

Oh ok I have a few ripped vinyl albums and they were done to dsd
they are very good. but they are not vinyl and the dac matters very much

 

[microstrip]

To me CD couuld never make it on its own. Go ahead give the hardware and the software to demonstrate that.

Easy. Manuel de Falla: El Amor Brujo 1915 version El Retablo de Maese Pedro - Orquestra de Cambra Teatre Lliure de Barcelona / Josep Pons played in the complete Vivaldi stack with Transparent Audio clock and digital cabling.

 

[hopkins]

Oh ok I have a few ripped vinyl albums and they were done to dsd
they are very good. but they are not vinyl and the dac matters very much

You have albums that you ripped yourself with your turntable and a high quality ADC ? Then you compared them with the original version ? Using which DAC ?

 

[Ron Resnick]

The contrast between DACs are far less than Contrast between digital records

This just suggests that the dispersion in the sound of ADCs is greater than the dispersion in the sound of DACs.

 

[Alrainbow]

You have albums that you ripped yourself with your turntable and a high quality ADC ? Then you compared them with the original version ?

No not by me I did try this myself using a MyTek
while it did show good or great albums it was not close to what others shared

 

[hopkins]

No not by me I did try this myself using a MyTek
while it did show good or great albums it was not close to what others shared

It shows that it is not so easy to perform a comparison!

 

[Alrainbow]

Oddly I feel the same but have read the playback devices matters much more
Bruce can comment he is one who hears both sides of this.
vinyl tape and digital all have large variance in playback so much so it makes me wonder how much maters before.
now it’s also clear a bad cd is just this but so many times a bad cd is not bad but what happens as played effects it

 

[microstrip]

You have albums that you ripped yourself with your turntable and a high quality ADC ? Then you compared them with the original version ? Using which DAC ?

In an hobby where changing a signal (IC or speaker) cable can ruin a system sound such tests are meaningless.

Almost all of us (I do not write all to avoid a cable war) accept that cables are not transparent and have a sound signature. Does it make them all inferior products?

 

[Alrainbow]

I once belonged to closed audio groups so no dealer or open comments to hurt anyone
we shared to compare on what albums or tracks sounded like
The results were very different so much so it became futile
if a given system is under powered or out of balance it portrays its playback sound
we shared videos and while it’s not being there it truly shows pluses and minuses of there systems