"More people spend $€£100-400k on a system than 10-40k"...
- Thread starter spiritofmusic
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If this is true, this guy can't be much of an audio consultant!
Lol
Are you good cop or bad cop?If this is true, this guy can't be much of an audio consultant!
If this is true, this guy can't be much of an audio consultant!
FREAKING CONSULTANTS...
I still don't know who you are talking about
Wookie, I'm a self employed therapist and run two clinics. I hear the most dreadful stories of patient procurement and management in bigger clinics, some hugely busy, some strangely (lol) short on bodies.
I could not envisage myself carrying on this way. And if I detect any arrogance or entitlement from audio dealers, I drop things like a bad date.
I could not envisage myself carrying on this way. And if I detect any arrogance or entitlement from audio dealers, I drop things like a bad date.
... and you can count the number of credible high-end dealers in the UK on the fingers of possibly one and almost certainly two hands
I'm old enough to have owned some of that vintage gear and know folks who collect and use it as their main system - 95% sounds rolled off, veiled and high in distortion. However, as in any hobby there are some exceptions, technology leaps (maybe the Quads mentioned above, but IMO they do some things well other things, meh) but these are far and few between.
whether its rolled off or not, much of the vintage gear out there sounds pretty darn good and if I have to choose between say 15K and say 2.5K and I have to save for my kids education.... well you get where I am going with this. So what the original poster wrote may in fact be true. People who are going to spend over 100K on a system, well those buyers will always be there. However, even though many pieces of new gear do in fact sound very good, there are alternatives.
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Totally agree as well. My Ensemble Reference monitors from 1991 (modified and refoamed) were easily superseded in performance by 2016 Reference 3A MM DeCapo BE monitors that were, on an inflation adjusted basis, much cheaper. The performance of DACs, on both an absolute basis and a price/performance basis, has gone up tremendously over the decades. My modified Audio Innovations Second Audio parallel push-pull triode class A monoblocks from 1991, rightfully praised at the time, were easily bested in performance by my current Octave pentode A/B stereo amp at much higher power output but at, on an inflation adjusted basis, more or less same price. At the time, tube amps of a configuration as the Octave didn't have that quality.
It all got a bit cleaner , but more musical ???i highly doubt it .
Everybody is listening to tape and records again lol , wauw what a progress
Nope. Golden Age is now. There has never been a better time to buy great audio for both affordable or luxury segment dollars.
If i was a dealer/ magazine i would say it gets better every year ,lol.
Sometimes it gets better , sometimes worse
But how do you define " better".?
Sometimes it gets better , sometimes worse
But how do you define " better".?
lol...between the freaks and the consultants....quite the inner dialogue occuring here.FREAKING CONSULTANTS...
I still don't know who you are talking about
My experience with the former was identical.....lectured into avoiding...
The no soup approach is a barrier to entry into high end audio. New listeners ought to encouraged to get good Hifi. It may be a lifestyle choice at first - that may change - but they do keep the industry going. I just think that contextually your can derive as much pleasure from a system costing very little to a system costing £££££. Some of my best memories include a Walkman, a midi system, and my late fathers garrard (the mad one with the auto arm return)
One guy in Holland who s opinion I respect said the following :
(While I was inquiring about the sound of the JL 3 monoblocs he (still ) has for sale .)
It was about whether the older 6550 tube or the newer KT120 sounds better .
He said that's a personal thing , I am eager to hear my JL 2 s one time also with 6550 s ….or buy the JL 3 s lol.
(While I was inquiring about the sound of the JL 3 monoblocs he (still ) has for sale .)
It was about whether the older 6550 tube or the newer KT120 sounds better .
He said that's a personal thing , I am eager to hear my JL 2 s one time also with 6550 s ….or buy the JL 3 s lol.
Yes, moving used gear has become really painful the last 2-3 years. I used be able to sell nearly anything in a few days on Agon or other sites...now its hard. That said, I sold my JJ-322 amp in about a week and my Odeon Rigolettos in about a month. If the price is right there are still buyers.
As to systems in the middle, I see this as well where I get interested guys but then they see 18K for an amp, 18K for a speaker, 20K for a DAC and 10K for a preamp...and go "thanks but no thanks". The guy who is out to spend 100K+ thinks that level of gear is too cheap and only wants "the best".
I just built my upstairs "experiment lab" system for around 7.5K total (all used gear except for the horns/drivers). 3K for Supravox speakers+horns/drivers, 1.5K for two DACs, 2.2K for the amps, 250 for the CD transport, 50 for the rack, cables I already had but let's say 500 for those. Sounds pretty stunning. Ok, new price will be about triple that or somewhere in that 10-40K range that Marc has mentioned.
As to systems in the middle, I see this as well where I get interested guys but then they see 18K for an amp, 18K for a speaker, 20K for a DAC and 10K for a preamp...and go "thanks but no thanks". The guy who is out to spend 100K+ thinks that level of gear is too cheap and only wants "the best".
I just built my upstairs "experiment lab" system for around 7.5K total (all used gear except for the horns/drivers). 3K for Supravox speakers+horns/drivers, 1.5K for two DACs, 2.2K for the amps, 250 for the CD transport, 50 for the rack, cables I already had but let's say 500 for those. Sounds pretty stunning. Ok, new price will be about triple that or somewhere in that 10-40K range that Marc has mentioned.
Top end is clearly driving the profitability in the market. That is because if you make in low volume you cannot sell a lot of items (you just can't make enough) so to meet cost of living + a bit of luxury you need to sell expensive. Not many manufacturers are setup to do high volume in audio and those that are are probably making money on really high volume, low margin inexpensive stuff.
I think you are right that there are middle range buyers out there but their numbers are not so much higher than those at the top of the range. This means there is no way to sell a high volume of middle priced gear. If you can't sell any more 20K speakers in a year than 150K speakers then clearly you have a problem with making enough money at 20K speakers to have a viable business. My solution is to make my audio business a hobby business where I don't need to sell much to make it viable. A manufacturer is in another circumstance where he has to sell gear (unless he is a hobby manufactuerer just turning out a few pieces a year...but then he will be pricey). So what happens, many companies focus on one of the two ends and a lot of stuff in the middle is evaporating or moving to the high end pricewise to attract the top end buyers...Middle class hobbyists are left with buying used if they want something really good for middle money.