Most Important When Setting Up A World Class System— Prioritizing Subjective or Objective Criteria?

[Charles S]

Why intentionally create a volume / frequency imbalance? I assume it's due to hearing loss.

Thanks so much for the question. I was hoping was hoping someone might observe the "20 dB" boost that really begins very gradually at about 40 Hz. By 30 Hz the boost is around 6-10 dB gradually increasing to about 20 dB at about 16 Hz. I have truly excellent hearing for my age. I'm a physical oddity. I have perfect vision, normal anterior chamber, lens (no cataracts at all), normal posterior chamber, vessels, nerve, macula, and retina at age 76. I use 2.0 readers for distance and 4.0 readers for reading. My Ophthalmologist says my eyes are those of a 20-year-old.

I treadmill 40-48 miles weekly and have done so for over a decade. If not the best, I'm certainly one of the best senior roller skaters in America. The things I can do on roller skates are ridiculous and I am supposedly "all over Youtube". I have zero bone or joint complaints, perfect balance, and amazing flexibility on roller skates. My wheels are Black Fomacs Freestyle, that have almost no traction, because when you have perfect balance traction is your enemy. The slicker the floor the better for me.

Bass is a matter of taste. The human ear is quite insensitive for subsonic frequencies that are felt as well as heard. If you experienced my system, 95% of the time you would never even know my Thor was in the system. You would hear a beautiful bass with zero boom and superb resolution, perfectly blended to the midrange and treble. But for Cd's like "Psalms", it would be difficult to match the bass of my system. I don't want to go into why you need the boost except to say I never heard a 20 Hz note I didn't like. A speaker may be flat at 20 Hz and only have a barely audible, if audible at all, 20 Hz note. One of the keys to an XVX is that it does go down to 11 Hz (-6dB) and is impossible to overload at subsonic frequencies. Almost any other speaker will overload if you subject it to an extremely powerful 20-16 Hz note, providing it even has output (usable frequency response) in this range. You get what you pay for sometimes, and with the Wilson XVX, you get a speaker possessing tremendous LF output and capability, but it can't compete with a Subsonic or Thor.

Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest

Amps: McIntosh: MC3500MKII (2); MC1.25KW (2); MC2.1KW An
Preamp: C-12000 An
Sources: MCD12000 An; MVP881; MVP851; MR87; Marantz 510LV; Lenovo Yoga laptop
Speakers: Wilson Chronosonic XVX
Sub-Woofer: Wilson Thor’s Hammer; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables Main System AQ: WEL Signature speaker cables; 24’ balanced IC; balanced 1-meter Dragon IC ; WEL Signature digital, Coffee digital coaxial cables; Diamond optical (2); Diamond USB; Dragon (5 HC, 3 source cords); Thunder & Monsoon power cords
Cables Subwoofer System AQ: Redwood speaker cable; Wolf balanced subwoofer IC; Wind balanced IC to ActivXO; Hurricane HC; Firebird HC; Firebird Source; Dragon HC, power cords
Power Conditioners: AQ Niagara 7000; Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines.
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals; Bassocontinuo McIntosh Ultra Feet; X-material plinth
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD)
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes

 

[Charles S]

Umm you can't have it both ways. You can't be using +20dB of boost and only be using .2 watts for an audible tone at 16Hz. That's not how it works. A 20dB boost is a 100X increase in power.

Rob

Hi Rob,

This is total boost including the room and that's simply an estimate. I could be way off. At these frequencies notes that are simply wonderful with my Thor are inaudible with my XVX alone, and heavy notes at these frequencies are much more satisfying than with the XVX alone. The XVX is flat to about 15 Hz so I'm just estimating. I'm at about 1 'o'clock on my Wilson ActivXO crossover for my 2.1KW using my MC3500 to my XVX and the LP is at 30 Hz. And I can hear very soft subsonic notes at about 0.2 watts as measured on the Watt hold Meter on my MC2.1KW. That's simply a fact. It's wonderful to be able to hear literally everything below 25 Hz down to about 10 Hz.

Best

Charles

 

[Charles S]

Wilson ActivXO electronic totally analog crossover at 1 o'clock for my MC2.1KW and my MC3500 for my XVX. Some shots of my MC2.1KW. It's an awesome power amplifier. The workmanship is simply superb.

 

[TonyW]

With all due respect to Charles and Ted, the above sounds like a massive infomercial for Wilson, McIntosh and SR. And I must say that the many references to cost is, in my view, elitist, arrogant and superficial and typifies the worst of the hi end audio facade.

We all know, or should know, that the relation between cost and sound quality is dubious at best and has little or no relationship to a "world class" system assuming that audio quality is the arbiter / qualifier of that classification. I love the sound of my $1,000 audio system. For my personal needs at this point in my life, it is indeed "world class". Have a good day gentlemen.

Man! I want so bad to hand you a tissue so you can dry your eyes.
You criticize them for talking about the cost of their systems and then brag about the cost of your system. A $1000 audio system? What is that- a 5 year old iPod and some Apple headphones? I started to think you turned Amish but you must have a computer. Or is that you, the shadowy figure in the back corner of the Public Library using the Windows 95 PC?

I gotta hand it to you really. If I could live with a $1000 stereo system first thing I would do is buy a decent meal. I haven't eaten good since I got into this hobby.

All in fun.

 

[thedudeabides]

My IMAC Is 11 years old and my Galaxy Tablet 9. No Ipod. Used to have a nice system in a large living area. Joseph Audio Pulsar speakers, REL T9X sub, Pass Labs X250.5 amp, Conrad Johnson ET5 pre and Luxman D06u CDP. Really miss it. Forced to move to a much smaller house that doesn't have room for a largish audio system. Had no choice because I lost my audio system and my music collection, 40 years worth, when my house burnt down last year June in the South Fork Fire / Ruidoso, NM. But I still eat well. Best.

 

[TonyW]

My IMAC Is 11 years old and my Galaxy Tablet 9. Used to have a nice system. Joseph Audio Pulsar speakers, REL T9X sub, Pass Labs X250.5 amp, Conrad Johnson ET5 pre and Luxman D06u CDP. I moved to a much smaller house that doesn't have room for a largish audio system. Had no choice because I lost my audio system and my music collection, 40 years worth, when my house burnt down last year June in the South Fork Fire. But I still eat well. Best.

I’m sorry to hear that.

 

[treitz3]

My IMAC Is 11 years old and my Galaxy Tablet 9. No Ipod. Used to have a nice system in a large living area. Joseph Audio Pulsar speakers, REL T9X sub, Pass Labs X250.5 amp, Conrad Johnson ET5 pre and Luxman D06u CDP. Really miss it. Forced to move to a much smaller house that doesn't have room for a largish audio system. Had no choice because I lost my audio system and my music collection, 40 years worth, when my house burnt down last year June in the South Fork Fire. But I still eat well. Best.

Ouch. I didn't know that. The 40 year old music collection loss would personally hit me harder than the gear. I'm am sorry for you.

Tom

 

[thedudeabides]

Thanks all for your thoughts. It's just life. And losing my music collection was a major hit. I'm over it and have moved on. I am happy and life is good.

 

[Charles S]

It's great fun to be able to converse with someone like Ted or Ron or Lee, etc. And yes, absolutely it is enlist, etc. but not arrogant. So many things in life are free if your health is excellent. Tonight, I skated with a beautiful woman on a floor so slick that you wouldn't believe it. I don't think any of you have ever done that. Try holding your fist out while she does all sorts of snaps (pivots) using me for balance and follow her around the rink. Try skating couples where we do all sorts of moves while we skate to the music, and it was quite crowded. Try skating with her in a tight circle and figure of eight while she does all sorts of turns and pivots. All this cost me 9 dollars. If I had to choose between my skating and my high-end system as much as I like my system, I'd choose skating. The things I can do on skates are ridiculous for my age.

 

[Lee]

With all due respect to Charles and Ted, the above sounds like a massive infomercial for Wilson, McIntosh and SR. And I must say that the many references to cost is, in my view, elitist, arrogant and superficial and typifies the worst of the hi end audio facade.

I didn't see any reference to cost. Looking at prior threads it was about performance and lifespan. Did I miss it?

 

[Lee]

My IMAC Is 11 years old and my Galaxy Tablet 9. No Ipod. Used to have a nice system in a large living area. Joseph Audio Pulsar speakers, REL T9X sub, Pass Labs X250.5 amp, Conrad Johnson ET5 pre and Luxman D06u CDP. Really miss it. Forced to move to a much smaller house that doesn't have room for a largish audio system. Had no choice because I lost my audio system and my music collection, 40 years worth, when my house burnt down last year June in the South Fork Fire / Ruidoso, NM. But I still eat well. Best.

Very sorry to hear about your situation.

 

[thedudeabides]

If I had to choose between my skating and my high-end system as much as I like my system, I'd choose skating.

Glad you are in good enough health to enjoy skating. Sounds like $9 well spent.

 

[thedudeabides]

Very sorry to hear about your situation.

Thanks Lee. Everything worked out fine and I have nothing to feel sorry about except maybe loosing my music collection. I am much more fortunate than others. The thing that continues to upset me and all the others impacted by the fire (multiple fatalities, 1,200 structures destroyed, many other properties damaged by subsequent flooding not to mention millions of dollars in lost business revenue) is that it was arson caused.

 

[twitch]

Thanks all for your thoughts. It's just life. And losing my music collection was a major hit. I'm over it and have moved on. I am happy and life is good.

Gordon, I'm sorry to hear of your loss but it sounds like your head is in the right place and you're moving forward my friend. I still have fond memories of our Logan Days, RMAF, etc. Keep your chin up and remember, World Class Music always sounds good whenever and wherever it's heard

 

[Charles S]

I too feel for "the dude" and his loss. I was Medical Examiner of Sumner Co. TN for 15 years (about 1987-2002). Also chief of the ER for 22 years. I routinely saw folks experiencing severe loss, much worse than losing your belongings. Try finding out that you at age 30 years old and have a fatal glioblastoma multiforme in the ER. You had been having headaches for a month. Or new onset type I diabetes. Or informing by phone that your loved one was killed that night in a fatal truck accident. The list is endless. I have seen folks burned to a crisp or disfigured beyond identification on a routine basis. Try hearing the shrieks of the family in the bereavement room when resuscitation failed. We have all experienced personal tragedy. I was in my master bedroom holding my wife's hand, when she asked what time, it was. Ten minutes later she passed. She was seventy and had fought severe illnesses all her life. She was a brilliant Ophthalmologist and a beautiful woman. She died of acute aspiration pneumonia after dementia and renal failure. She refused transport to the hospital, the bravest act of courage I have ever seen, with the paramedics in the room. She knew it was curtains. It was over. So yes absolutely, losing your life's goods and belongings is a tragedy, but the thread was not about this or using it as an an excuse to call me arrogant or elitist.

 

[TonyW]

I took my wife out for a fine Valentine’s Day dinner with live music. The solo violinist was sitting about 30 feet away from me. It was at the country club, the room has 1 1/2 walls of tall glass overlooking the golf course. Our table for two was against a side wall so listening conditions were not optimum. I noted imaging was just so-so. I could tell the general direction of the soloist. Detail and resolution was poor- no surprise given the distance. I could not feel the resin on the strings or hear the tug of the bow pulling on the strings.

While it was a true life setting I missed the more real than real performance of my system.

Tongue in cheek commentary…

 

[PYP]

I took my wife out for a fine Valentine’s Day dinner with live music. The solo violinist was sitting about 30 feet away from me. It was at the country club, the room has 1 1/2 walls of tall glass overlooking the golf course. Our table for two was against a side wall so listening conditions were not optimum. I noted imaging was just so-so. I could tell the general direction of the soloist. Detail and resolution was poor- no surprise given the distance. I could not feel the resin on the strings or hear the tug of the bow pulling on the strings.

While it was a true life setting I missed the more real than real performance of my system.

Tongue in cheek commentary…

I hope your wife didn't ask you what you were thinking about and you said: My listening room is better.

How romantic. Just kidding...kind of. There have been times when my wife and I are watching a movie and at a critical juncture in the story I will say something like: Nice McIntosh system, but the speakers don't seem to be connected. You know, real audiophile romantic stuff.

 

[TonyW]

My wife stopped asking me what I’m thinking about years ago. She knows she won’t understand it. Other engineers here know what I mean.

I know the music was for ambience but I will still listen and compare it to my system.

 

[PYP]

My wife stopped asking me what I’m thinking about years ago. She knows she won’t understand it. Other engineers here know what I mean.

I know the music was for ambience but I will still listen and compare it to my system.

casual comparisons are instructive. At an outing to a restaurant that was new to us, I immediately heard a piano when we entered. That was unexpected (piano in local restaurant), but it was clearly not a sound system playing. Can one achieve that with one's system? That is, hearing it from afar and mistaking it for the real thing? To me, that would be world class - even if it could only fool you for, say, a solo acoustic guitar.

The pianist was good, nothing special. But it was very enjoyable to hear a real instrument in all its complexity when it wasn't expected (and the food was great, a perfect complement). Just one person, one piano and the creative spirit. Oh, and of course, the company.

 

[PYP]

My wife stopped asking me what I’m thinking about years ago.

One of my favorite anecdotes: A husband (let's call him Joe) has just won an award (let's call it the WBF award).

He says to his wife: Honey, in your wildest dream would you imagine that I would win the WBF award?
She responds: Joe, you don't figure into my wildest dreams.