Moving away from box speakers: Diesis Audio vs Avantgarde Acoustic?

[Synaxis]

I love the Tobian's I have here.

They have zero "boxiness" sound to them, work well closer to the wall, and sound absolutely huge.

 

[morricab]

Bad luck with Cessaro: no dealer or distributor.

Acapella La Campanella is another good one to consider…excellent sound too.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Bad luck with Cessaro: no dealer or distributor.

With Martion horn speakers it would probably be similar. The unicorn is fully active dsp or analog can be order, you only need a preamp. Listen to it in Berlin
The bass horn can be placed separately if there are no free corners in the room. The horn have a separat stand.

Einhorn : Martion

Audiosysteme

martion.de

 

[Hear Here]

It's ok when you you are satisfied.
In real life they look ok. Uncompromising bass, never heard before.perfect match with avantgarde View attachment 139888

Ah, now I get it. Those huge subs are an alternative to Avantgarde's own even bigger horn subs. I would tend to agree that they may be a better bet than Spacehorns or their predecessors. The 2-stack array looks rather more acceptable than the 3-stack one on their website, but I'd certainly prefer them with covers to hid the drivers though!

 

[Hear Here]

I would highly recommend while pursing the horn route that you understand the minimum distance from speaker to sweet spot for adequate driver to driver integration.

Could you elaborate on this theory please. Although I've always maintained a more-or-less equilateral triangle of speakers and listening position with my horns, I've not heard of your theory before.

 

[Hear Here]

I understand this. According to Avantgarde, the minimum recommended distance is 3m. My current speakers are 2.85m from the listening position. I can probably move the new speakers a little bit to make it 3m.

You can certainly place the AGs very close to the wall behind them if that helps.

 

[KeithR]

I can confirm that the Opus 1 + sub sounds excellent…in fact it’s the only Cessaro I truly think sounds great! Never heard without the sub, so hard to say if those alone can do reasonable bass if you can’t fit the sub.

Diesis sounds great but, being dipole, they need a decent amount of space behind them. If you can’t accommodate them they won’t work optimally.

Brad, have you heard Fyne F1 series yet?

 

[morricab]

Brad, have you heard Fyne F1 series yet?

Yes, the smallest floor standing one with an 8 inch coax driver. I liked the sound quite a bit but probably would have liked it more with different amps. You still happy with the big ones?

 

[sbnx]

Ask 5 audiophiles which speaker to get and get 20 answers. Many of the suggested speakers are very nice choices. But which ones in the list are offering a solution for the bass issues in that room??

I have setup all of the Avantgarde speakers. Many of them in small hotel rooms. Sitting 8 to 10 feet (2.4 to 3 meters) from a pair of unos is not a problem. Of course one can’t just plunck them down and think all will be well. (this is true of all speakers.) Once setup is complete the OP will have deep, linear bass and a dynamic, transparent, integrated sound.. he can flavor to taste with the amp/preamp of choice.

 

[sbo6]

Ask 5 audiophiles which speaker to get and get 20 answers. Many of the suggested speakers are very nice choices. But which ones in the list are offering a solution for the bass issues in that room??

I have setup all of the Avantgarde speakers. Many of them in small hotel rooms. Sitting 8 to 10 feet (2.4 to 3 meters) from a pair of unos is not a problem. Of course one can’t just plunck them down and think all will be well. (this is true of all speakers.) Once setup is complete the OP will have deep, linear bass and a dynamic, transparent, integrated sound.. he can flavor to taste with the amp/preamp of choice.

You're a dealer now, right?

 

[sbnx]

Yep. Right there in my signature. That’s how I know 8-10 feet is not an issue.

It doesn’t affect me regardless of which speaker the OP buys. The main reason I contributed to this thread is the OP asked specifically between AG and Diesis.

 

[sbo6]

Yep. Right there in my signature. That’s how I know 8-10 feet is not an issue.

It doesn’t affect me regardless of which speaker the OP buys. The main reason I contributed to this thread is the OP asked specifically between AG and Diesis.

Again, I've heard many horns, including yours, and in close proximity, there's a sense of congestion and lack of driver-to-driver cohesion. I'd bet that most seasoned folks know it to be true. Maybe you hear differently than me, it's possible and why you believe 8' isn't an issue.

 

[KeithR]

Yes, the smallest floor standing one with an 8 inch coax driver. I liked the sound quite a bit but probably would have liked it more with different amps. You still happy with the big ones?

I’ve really enjoyed them as they have great dynamics with natural tone and are super coherent with good bass (just not packing/transporting them as they should be crated vs this silly system Fyne uses).

I’ve considered Cessaro Opus/subs but not sure much an upgrade other than being more efficient. I’d be curious your thoughts as I’ve only heard them at Axpona but they sounded great. AG Mezzo and Stenheim Ultime 2s are likely big upgrades but at a much higher price.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Ah, now I get it. Those huge subs are an alternative to Avantgarde's own even bigger horn subs. I would tend to agree that they may be a better bet than Spacehorns or their predecessors. The 2-stack array looks rather more acceptable than the 3-stack one on their website, but I'd certainly prefer them with covers to hid the drivers though!

two of them weigh 520kg sealed box carbon fiber concrete. every bass drum kick feels like muhammad ali has landed a devastating body blow on you. perverse i never heard such a force at home hifi. Yes at concerts already close to speakers.

 

[morricab]

I’ve really enjoyed them as they have great dynamics with natural tone and are super coherent with good bass (just not packing/transporting them as they should be crated vs this silly system Fyne uses).

I’ve considered Cessaro Opus/subs but not sure much an upgrade other than being more efficient. I’d be curious your thoughts as I’ve only heard them at Axpona but they sounded great. AG Mezzo and Stenheim Ultime 2s are likely big upgrades but at a much higher price.

Are the Cessaros more sensitive? Maybe a dB or two at most I think. Sonically, the Opus 1 is really good...good enough to almost justify it's sort of outrageous price.

From what I heard recently on the new generation AG Uno SD, AG has taken a fresh look at their sound and it is quite good. Stenheim I have heard many times now and still not at all convinced by them.

 

[Argonaut]

Again, I've heard many horns, including yours, and in close proximity, there's a sense of congestion and lack of driver-to-driver cohesion.

How close is close ? As I feel that you are being a little disingenuous to horn designs here , as if one stands close enough to pretty much *Any* speaker design incorporating more than a single driver one tends to hear the affect to which you are alluding.

 

[Hear Here]

two of them weigh 520kg sealed box carbon fiber concrete. every bass drum kick feels like muhammad ali has landed a devastating body blow on you. perverse i never heard such a force at home hifi. Yes at concerts already close to speakers.

Thanks for the encouraging description. However, regarding your last sentence, the reason I go to concerts is to hear musical instruments and not loudspeakers! The vibration of a thousand strings, reeds, skins, vocal cords, etc can never be replicated by half a dozen paper cones moving a few mm forwards and backwards, though modern speakers do a remarkable job of imitation - but it's never "real"!

 

[DasguteOhr]

Thanks for the encouraging description. However, regarding your last sentence, the reason I go to concerts is to hear musical instruments and not loudspeakers! The vibration of a thousand strings, reeds, skins, vocal cords, etc can never be replicated by half a dozen paper cones moving a few mm forwards and backwards, though modern speakers do a remarkable job of imitation - but it's never "real"!

But the concerts have to be small, usually heard via PA speakers.

To add to the confusion, the Supravox heritage kl 15 is an interesting speaker. 15" bass, midrange horndriver 2" with modern version of klangfilm horn, horn tweeter 1" with bronce horn. Lp Magazine, Germany next month test.

KL15 Heritage speaker

KL15 Heritage speaker characteristics Bandwidth : 20 -20 000 HZ Efficiency : 96dB/1w/1m Power rating : 150 watts 3 way system crossing over at 600Hz and 8000Hz. The speaker have been designed and are built in France in our workshop. Bass 15 inches custom woofer designed and built by Supravox in...

www.supravox.fr

 

[bonzo75]

Again, I've heard many horns, including yours, and in close proximity, there's a sense of congestion and lack of driver-to-driver cohesion. I

Big horns do require sitting minimum 4m if not more from them, usually. Even in Tang's and audioquattr's room I would wish for 5 more m, and Tang was already at 5m. That said, the Vyger Mayer Pnoe and the Admire Audio's big 'uns do not require that much space, though it gets better with more space. It is not so much about congestion as the driver to driver cohesion Separately, lack of cohesion is one of the biggest factors that causes most horns (and other speakers too) to sound bad, and only few horns get past it

 

[abeidrov]

I’ve been looking for some information/reviews/manuals about Odeon Helix and Semper models. So far - no luck. Just the specs from their site. Very strange, not a single review. What are the room size requirements for the both speakers? Maybe someone can point me in the right direction?

Thanks in advance,
Aziz