Moving away from box speakers: Diesis Audio vs Avantgarde Acoustic?

[sbo6]

Avantgarde speakers do not use a compression driver. It is a textile dome at the end of a horn.

The type of driver does not affect the objectives achieved (and detriments) with an attached horn.

 

[sbnx]

The type of driver does not affect the objectives achieved (and detriments) with an attached horn.

I agree with this statement. There are examples of good and bad implementation of all of the various speaker technologies. I was simply correcting the statement regarding compression drivers as it is misinformation.

 

[sbnx]

The tweeter is a compression driver but the midrange driver is not.

Here is a picture of the tweeter. As all can see it is a fabric dome. The horn screws into the threads resulting in a dome tweeter firing directly into the throat of the horn.

 

[morricab]

Here is a picture of the tweeter. As all can see it is a fabric dome. The horn screws into the threads resulting in a dome tweeter firing directly into the throat of the horn.

View attachment 139834

They must have changed then in the latest generation…I know older Trios had a Beyma compression driver for the tweeter.

 

[Hear Here]

There’s no costly amp with Kii3 (or Dutch and Dutch which I haven’t heard).

Yes, there is DSP processing in the Kii3, but, there is also no other crossover component in the chain and the amps are directly coupled to each driver. I’ve owned a lot of speakers and they’ve got excellent sonics compared to other all-passives at similar (+/-50%) price points. (That being said, I appreciate both the Avantgarde and Dieses speakers I’ve heard.)

More important for this particular thread, they are exceedingly room-placement friendly, which is why I bought them in the first place given they were for a space where there was asymmetry in they Left/right corner loading and they had to be close to the rear wall.

I think you may need to update your Profile as there's no sign of a Kii!

The incoming signal to an amp and the signal from an amp should be as pure and accurate as possible, so in the case of the type of speaker you use, the incoming signal is messed with by the amps within the speakers because of their DSP. I grant you this is the whole point of this type of speaker and it makes the speakers easier to set up in difficult, asymmetric rooms such as your and mine. Certainly there are crossovers, although these are active ones as otherwise the bass frequencies would destroy the tweeters! I wonder if the tweeter amps actually have DSP, as the top end is normally unaffected by room anomalies so shouldn't be necessary.

I'm sure both the Kii and D&D speakers do a great job and likely much preferable to a passive speaker of similar size with a full-range amp that features DSP. However, I wonder if the array of small woofers (in the BXT) can provide the natural relaxed delivery of convincing bass compared with a pair of 12" drivers. Having said that, I'd love to have the Kii3 with BXT in my room to see how they compare with my Avantgarde Duo XDs. They have similar list prices.

 

[morricab]

Here is a picture of the tweeter. As all can see it is a fabric dome. The horn screws into the threads resulting in a dome tweeter firing directly into the throat of the horn.

View attachment 139834

Just checked, the previous XD version still used a Mylar diaphragm compression driver. I think this was basically the Beyma Cp-380m, which is an excellent driver.

 

[Verdier]

Check out the Destination Audio Nika Speakers! They come highly recommended and delivered outstanding sound quality at the Munich event.

No. It sounded disappointing.

 

[morricab]

No. It sounded disappointing.

Agreed…not to say it’s not good, but it didn’t sing in Munich, IMO.

 

[Zero000]

With adequate diffusion behind them, they'd likely sound exceptional.

They will sound completely unlike Wilsons, though.

Wilson speakers posses attributes planar magnetics just don't and vice versa as I know you know.

FWIW I am not sure where I would put the room treatment. In here I have it onto the front and back walls. Mix of diffusion and absorption I would say. Across the entire surface of both said walls.

 

[morricab]

Here is a picture of the tweeter. As all can see it is a fabric dome. The horn screws into the threads resulting in a dome tweeter firing directly into the throat of the horn.

View attachment 139834

Now I am confused, The Audio Best review says the G3 tweeter is annular, not a dome. An annular tweeter is usually a compression driver, this is what JB, BMS and some others started making as they avoid breakup issues that most compression diaphragms suffer.

 

[sbnx]

Let me get the specifics. I believe the new zero uses an annular tweeter. But need to check. BRB.

 

[DasguteOhr]

 

[KeithR]

I recommend your Wilson over those AG unos or duos. So might as well stick to them, and replace them with a used Verity Leonore that will let you enjoy powerful SETs like Lamm or Kronzilla or NAT or Trafomatic. Or go Stenheim with the CH

What’s nice about the smaller Stenheims are the front ports for a room like this.

 

[Kozak170]

The tweeter is a compression driver but the midrange driver is not.

Until before G3 the AG Trio used a custom Community M200 for mid (2 inch compression driver for 600hz-4khz) with the Beyma CP380M as a tweeter (1 inch compression driver for 4khz+) and Duo an Uno models used cone driver for mid (modified Davis cone driver) with Beyma CD only for tweeter.

 

[abeidrov]

Do you think I can consider Duo SD or it would be too big for my room? According to the specs Duo is recommended for rooms >20 m² and Uno for rooms >16 m². My room is about 20 m², maybe slightly more.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hello abeidrov,

Why don't you fly to New York, audition Diesis at Bob Visitainer, and then visit Jeff Catalano nearby in lower Manhattan at High Water Sound to hear the Cessaro Opus SE plus subwoofer. I have heard the Cessaro Opus SE plus subwoofer twice now, and I think it is a fantastic, natural-sounding system which is domestic friendly and has a small footprint, although it is a four piece system.

I also like the Diesis very much. The open baffle (Diesis) versus sealed box (Opus subwoofer) design might really reveal the biggest difference in presentation between these two great loudspeakers, with maybe the Diesis having the advantage in low frequency openness and texture, and maybe the Opus having the advantage in low frequency extension and dynamic oomph and impact

 

[abeidrov]

Hello abeidrov,

Why don't you fly to New York, audition Diesis at Bob Visitainer, and then visit Jeff Catalano nearby in lower Manhattan at High Water Sound to hear the Cessaro Opus SE plus subwoofer. I have heard the Cessaro Opus SE plus subwoofer twice now, and I think it is a fantastic, natural-sounding system which is domestic friendly and has a small footprint, although it is a four piece system.

I also like the Diesis very much. The open baffle (Diesis) versus sealed box (Opus subwoofer) design might really reveal the biggest difference in presentation between these two great loudspeakers, with maybe the Diesis having the advantage in low frequency openness and texture, and maybe the Opus having the advantage in low frequency extension and dynamic oomph and impact

Hello Ron,

Unfortunately, flying to the States is not an option at the moment.

I can’t find any reference to Cessaro Opus SE on their site. Is it the development of the Opus 1 model? Opus 1 is not on the site either. Very strange. Where can I find the specs of this model? And I am not sure, I have any space for subs in my room.

So, you would take Cessaro Opus SE over Avantgarde UNO SD?

Kind regards,
Aziz

 

[DasguteOhr]

Opus 1
Modell Cessaro Horn Acoustics Opus I
Typ 2-Wege-Hornsystem
Bandbreite 40 Hz – 22.000 Hz
Basstreiber Cessaro 8-Zoll-Alnico-Antriebseinheit
Hochtöner-Treiber CNC-gefrästes Aluminiumhorn mit einem Cessaro 1-Zoll-Beryllium-Kompressionstreiber
Effizienz 97,5 dB
Impedanz 6 Ohm
Empfohlene Raumgröße 20 – 30m²
Abmessungen 30 cm x 55 cm x 125 cm (B x T x H)
Gewicht 63 kg pro Kanal

Opus se subwoofer

Design	Closed box design. Active with Class-D amp and DSP.
Bandwidth	20 – 100Hz
Drive Units	2 x 13 inch reference bass drive units
Amplification	Custom designed Class-D amplification 2 x 500W
Recom. roomsize	25 – 40m² per subwoofer
Dimension	Width: 40cm (58cm including feet) Depth: 70cm Height: 80cm
Weight	85kg

 

[abeidrov]

Opus 1
Modell Cessaro Horn Acoustics Opus I
Typ 2-Wege-Hornsystem
Bandbreite 40 Hz – 22.000 Hz
Basstreiber Cessaro 8-Zoll-Alnico-Antriebseinheit
Hochtöner-Treiber CNC-gefrästes Aluminiumhorn mit einem Cessaro 1-Zoll-Beryllium-Kompressionstreiber
Effizienz 97,5 dB
Impedanz 6 Ohm
Empfohlene Raumgröße 20 – 30m²
Abmessungen 30 cm x 55 cm x 125 cm (B x T x H)
Gewicht 63 kg pro Kanal

Thank you! What’s the difference to Opus SE?
So Opus SE is the subwoofer?

 

[DasguteOhr]

Thank you! What’s the difference to Opus SE?
So Opus SE is the subwoofer?

I could imagine that the horn driver and bass driver opus 1 are selected again (matched), so cessaro actually uses tad&supravox drivers. But there are also now in-house developments. I can't say anything more specific.

Now in the german audio market

Cessaro CESSARO OPUS 1 + SUB (2156722613) | Ausstellungsstück | Standlautsprecher | Angebot auf audio-markt.de

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