Moving away from box speakers: Diesis Audio vs Avantgarde Acoustic?

[Hear Here]

I have found that with horn speakers such as Avantgarde that are very directional, substantial toe-in isa necessary if imaging is important. In fact, I've found the projected line of fire from horns should cross over somewhere between a foot or two in front of the listener to a foot behind - I prefer the former. I wouldn't care to suggest this has anything to do with reflections because in my present room (roughly semi-circular) and to a lesser extent my previous one (5-sided) the reflection issue is far from what may happen in most rooms. However, for best imaging, horns seem to generally be best pointing at the listener.

 

[Argonaut]

One further proposition for the OP @abeivrob might like to consider , reasonable dimensions and under budget :

Destination Audio NiKA – HiFi Knights

Destination Audio NiKA is a low power SET lovers' dream. Read about it @HiFiKnights.com by Marek Dyba

hifiknights.com

 

[Audiohertz2]

I have found that with horn speakers such as Avantgarde that are very directional, substantial toe-in isa necessary if imaging is important. In fact, I've found the projected line of fire from horns should cross over somewhere between a foot or two in front of the listener to a foot behind - I prefer the former. I wouldn't care to suggest this has anything to do with reflections because in my present room (roughly semi-circular) and to a lesser extent my previous one (5-sided) the reflection issue is far from what may happen in most rooms. However, for best imaging, horns seem to generally be best pointing at the listener.

The toe in effect applies to all speakers really , if you listen to classical mostly, live or recorded and have a strong imagination straight ahead will sound more natural than with Toe .....

Multi track Studio recordings better with toe ..

 

[Lagonda]

It's not about which concept plays deeper. It's about control and the lowest possible distortion in the bass. The more deflection a bass driver has to make, the greater the distortion. If you distribute the bass signal to several actively controlled drivers, as in my example photo of 2x 16" woofer + Geithain 3way with 16" speakers, you have a more even sound distribution in the room.
The deflections of individual drivers are reduced and distortion is lower - it simply sounds cleaner. In the bass range, there is no substitute for membrane surface area, as the old saying goes with cars, there is no substitute for engine capacity except for more engine capacity.
P.S
I use 4×15" woofer in a 40 square meter room, but it is still not enough, it can be even better.

I use 16x 12" woofers and 16x 7,5" for mid-bass.

 

[Lagonda]

Again, I've heard many horns, including yours, and in close proximity, there's a sense of congestion and lack of driver-to-driver cohesion. I'd bet that most seasoned folks know it to be true. Maybe you hear differently than me, it's possible and why you believe 8' isn't an issue.

That is true for most larger multiway speakers, not just horns.

 

[DasguteOhr]

I use 16x 12" woofers and 16x 7,5" for mid-bass.

Today I would take 4 corner horns, 2 on top of each other in each corner great bass fast response. But I've given up on the horns

Audio Technik GmbH

Audio Technik GmbH, Herstellung und Vertrieb von Lautsprechern

www.lowther.de

 

[Audiohertz2]

I use 16x 12" woofers and 16x 7,5" for mid-bass.

Thats not a loudspeaker system , thats inventory ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

That is true for most larger multiway speakers, not just horns.

Poorly done yes ..!

 

[sbo6]

That is true for most larger multiway speakers, not just horns.

True, but the congestion and lack of driver coherence is not the same for all driver types. In general and IME horns are the worst, then cones then planars.

 

[Lagonda]

Poorly done yes ..!

Big systems need room to get it right, you can dsp the sh..t out of it too, but then you are really locked into one seating position.

 

[Johan K]

I use 16x 12" woofers and 16x 7,5" for mid-bass.

Like the old saying in bodybuilding: ””Too Much Is Never Enough”” .. LOL !!!

 

[Audiohertz2]

Big systems need room to get it right, you can dsp the sh..t out of it too, but then you are really locked into one seating position.

If done right you can walk up and not lose coherency , you should be able to sit at 1M ,2M 3M and still get coherency, all should be in the same balance , well until reflections interfere .

A recent local luddite wanted 10M listening distance for his dream horns

Imagine the listening room and the shout ..

 

[Lagonda]

If done right you can walk up and not lose coherency , you should be able to sit at 1M ,2M 3M and still get coherency, all should be in the same balance , well until reflections interfere .

A recent local luddite wanted 10M listening distance for his dream horns

Imagine the listening room and the shout ..

If you get coherence at 1 m distance from a large speaker system i must seriously question your hearing.

 

[andromedaaudio]

1 m not i agree .
But at 2 - 3 m
You can get already a good coherent sound.
Backed up by measuring (off course every design will be different)

 

[Audiohertz2]

If you get coherence at 1 m distance from a large speaker system i must seriously question your hearing.

You both do realize loudspeakers are regularly measured at 1M ..

Carry on

 

[andromedaaudio]

Measuring sensitivity with one watt at 1 m its a standard Spl measurement. at 1 meter mic distance

When i design loudspeakers i do may be 50 measurements ranging from 1 m to 4 meters .
At different angles as welll to get the full picture.
And make X over changes accordingly

 

[Audiohertz2]

Not coherent at 1M never coherent , the distance becomes a masking by using reflections to smear the high frequency for faux coherency ..!

Good measured performance and step response at 1M means you can setup and listen at 1M no issues ..!

This was very critical in designin near field monitors for mastering suites. Its nothing new both Thiel and Dunleavy did the same..

Quads can do such too ..!

 

[andromedaaudio]

I dont agree at all .
You can may be get good coherence at 1 m
from small 2 way system

Im talking big 4 way systems , like my XPE .

Thats a shortfall of the Wilson XVX system, to High / multiple stacked units resulting in not a coherent sound output .(to my ears at least).

One of the best , if not the best coherent LS is the Rockport Lyra

 

[morricab]

If you get coherence at 1 m distance from a large speaker system i must seriously question your hearing.

My Acoustats could do no problem and no my hearing is fine thank you

 

[Lagonda]

I dont agree at all .
You can may be get good coherence at 1 m
from small 2 way system

Im talking big 4 systems , like my XPE .

Thats a shortfall of the Wilson XVX system, to High / multiple stacked units resulting in not a coherent sound output .(to my ears at least)

And i am talking about real four column speaker systems not puny little speakers !