MSB Select DAC II. The way every DAC on the planet should be built.

[audioblazer]

Is it clear enough ? U will receive any & every upgrade that MSB can imagine for free !!! Any element of doubt here ? Absolutely crystal that all 1st upgrade should be free otherwise why pay 18-33k for the option to upgrade when DAC V that cost 42k+ now is essentially the same as select 1 except for its chassis ?

 

[edorr]

The 2012 Mirus is current today, and it still will be in 2018 with a low cost upgrade of 2 simple boards the size of credit cards. It was designed to be current for around 10 years with firmware updates and simple low cost boards.

That is not the issue. How much does the orignal 2012 model sell for in 2015 on the used market?

 

[Believe High Fidelity]

The intention of this thread was to point out the advantages of designing DAC's in a modular, upgradable form factor. If MSB, or any other company doesn't honor their promises, it's not the fault of the modular form factor. Also, as I pointed out before, nobody is obligated to preform these upgrades if they don't find that they are worth the expense.

I got that part and I am not suggesting the thread is anything but the benefits of the modular form factor as you intended. You can replace the parts as needed when you are ready and it is very easy and should be very inexpensive. Check and point taken. But you did use MSB as an example...

 

[DaveyF]

View attachment 23819
Correction by Vince not larry

Ok, but that points to the ethics of the marketing and not the fact that the unit(s) are upgradeable or not.

 

[Blizzard]

That is not the issue. How much does the orignal 2012 model sell for in 2015 on the used market?

Much higher than any other DAC from a manufacturer who has already moved on to a completely new model. Around $4000 is the average price on the used market. However I'm selling mine ridiculously cheap @ $3000 because I got it for dealer cost. They are very hard to come by on the used market because it costs far more money to find something that sounds better. And since they don't have anything better, and have a solid upgrade path, why would people want to sell?


I have searched high and low and this is the only one I can find used on the planet!

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19059-Resonessence-Labs-Mirus-For-Sale

 

[asiufy]

OK, I see a whole lot of misinformation here.

First, Andre, you have a SELECT DAC right in your backyard, and it would be great if you could take the time to actually LISTEN to the thing before commenting on it. I regret you weren't able to come to Jim's house the other day, but it's right here in my store, playing right now. Exceptionally well, I might add...

Then, you throw this thing about the Analog DAC being discontinued. That's as far from the truth as it can be, at this point in time. Sorry, whoever told you that was trying to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt), most likely to sell something else. The Analog is a modern architecture, modular, and it's here to stay. Again, if you want to hear it, or even review it, we're here to help, as we have a fully loadad unit, with Quad USB, streamer, Diamond power supply, etc.

Then, upgrade programs. The prices are right there on MSB's site. How many manufacturers make their product modular, and not only that, make the upgrade path very clear, with prices right there on the web site? You can go from DAC IV Plus all the way to SELECT, and upgrade transports and power supplies as well. It's frankly kind of odd to see people (competitors too) put down MSB for offering their products in modules, while everybody else forces you to the Audiogon merry-go-round...

I don't agree that audiophiles who buy Esoteric or dCS don't care what their gear will cost within a year or two, as has been mentioned. This goes against what I've heard from just about EVERYBODY. Everybody who puts REAL MONEY into the hobby cares how much they're going to lose in the long run. They know they'll lose some, so they want to know how much. Things going for 30 cents on the dollar just merely a few months down the road are not unheard of, and not only in the DAC segment I might add...

If anybody wants to experience the MSB SELECT, or any of the other MSB products, we're here to help.

 

[edorr]

Much higher than any other DAC from a manufacturer who has already moved on to a completely new model. Around $4000 is the average price on the used market. However I'm selling mine ridiculously cheap @ $3000 because I got it for dealer cost. They are very hard to come by on the used market because it costs far more money to find something that sounds better. And since they don't have anything better, and have a solid upgrade path, why would people want to sell?


I have searched high and low and this is the only one I can find used on the planet!

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19059-Resonessence-Labs-Mirus-For-Sale

What was MSRP of the master clock upgrade?

 

[Blizzard]

Why would Blizz actually want to an ACTUAL MSB customer? It is much more fun to make stuff up.

You are seriously losing all of your credibility, simply because there is intelligent people reading this thread. Ever consider that?

 

[Blizzard]

What was MSRP of the master clock upgrade?

That's something they don't offer as a standard option. I got it done because I know the engineer who designed the DAC (and the Sabre line of DAC chips) And the ESS headquarters is right down the road from me. The reason I have this DAC was because they were going to supply the OEM DAC's for my active speakers. So I bought 2 of these unit's to clock sync together in a active 2 way system to test how they sound. I had the unit that was going to be "master" factory upgraded with a lower jitter clock. But as it turned out, Dustin is simply too busy working on the next generation of SOTA Sabre DAC chips to take on this project. So I had to look elsewhere. I love the DAC, but I'm building my own now, so just don't need it. I sold the other one already, and don't expect this one to last long at this price.

 

[Andre Marc]

OK, I see a whole lot of misinformation here.

First, Andre, you have a SELECT DAC right in your backyard, and it would be great if you could take the time to actually LISTEN to the thing before commenting on it. I regret you weren't able to come to Jim's house the other day, but it's right here in my store, playing right now. Exceptionally well, I might add...

Then, you throw this thing about the Analog DAC being discontinued. That's as far from the truth as it can be, at this point in time. Sorry, whoever told you that was trying to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt), most likely to sell something else. The Analog is a modern architecture, modular, and it's here to stay. Again, if you want to hear it, or even review it, we're here to help, as we have a fully loadad unit, with Quad USB, streamer, Diamond power supply, etc.

Then, upgrade programs. The prices are right there on MSB's site. How many manufacturers make their product modular, and not only that, make the upgrade path very clear, with prices right there on the web site? You can go from DAC IV Plus all the way to SELECT, and upgrade transports and power supplies as well. It's frankly kind of odd to see people (competitors too) put down MSB for offering their products in modules, while everybody else forces you to the Audiogon merry-go-round...

I don't agree that audiophiles who buy Esoteric or dCS don't care what their gear will cost within a year or two, as has been mentioned. This goes against what I've heard from just about EVERYBODY. Everybody who puts REAL MONEY into the hobby cares how much they're going to lose in the long run. They know they'll lose some, so they want to know how much. Things going for 30 cents on the dollar just merely a few months down the road are not unheard of, and not only in the DAC segment I might add...

If anybody wants to experience the MSB SELECT, or any of the other MSB products, we're here to help.

Alex, I think I need to clarify some things as well.

First, I NEVER commented about the sound, construction, or performance of the Select. Ever. Not once. I was discussing and commenting on Blizzard's statements about their business model and modular design not being the only way to go. Please don't put words in my mouth. I think MSB digital it TOP SHELF. I was at the CES the very first year they exhibited. Again to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR, I was addressing Blizzard's notion that MSB has the perfect solution. I was not debating the product, but the paradigm. And I exposed the fact that he had not even heard the darned thing

It should also be noted that you are far from an impartial observer here.

Second, I was told by a member here who attended the event, who spoke to an MSB rep and he was told the least expensive DAC was going to be discontinued. I DID say
it was unsubstantiated, I made that CLEAR. In retrospect, I should not have repeated as I had my doubts. Please accept my apology for that. It is clear that member heard incorrectly or misunderstood. Thank you for clarifyng this.

As far as buyers of expensive digital gear looking to dump them on Audigon or trade them yearly, that is preposterous and this is just box collecting and does not refelct
how the overwhelming majority of rational consumers conduct themselves.

I would absolutely LOVE to take you up on reviewing the Analog DAC btw. My system in the new house has really settled in and it would be paired with a Bryston BDP-2 file player.

 

[Andre Marc]

You are seriously losing all of your credibility, simply because there is intelligent people reading this thread. Ever consider that?

LOL.

 

[Blizzard]

LOL.

Cold water on the face may help

 

[Narayan]

Ok can someone please explain to me all the hostility towards Blizzard? He starts a perfectly normal and to me interesting post and so far has been called sheep, unintelligent, dumb, clownish and has reacted extremely well to the insults spewed by the angry mob, he either has nerves of steel or doesn´t give a sh.t

The MSB´s innards are a pleasure to look at, modularity for me is essential at this price point to justify the investment, although in all ernest I can´t help but to think about DAC´s as computers, who amongst us would buy a $90,000 laptop or PC knowing Moore´s law will kick in two years down the road? In DAC world things move a lot faster.

 

[wisnon]

Its a circus in here now. Hehehe

I heard the Select. It was very good but to me not worth the money. I am lukewarm to the design. I am sure some will love it though.

It seems way over priced for what it is, but one can't deny that it did have the typical high end sound, commensurate to the upper tier, but the price??? Its double the very very capable Trinity Dac, for example.

I do like the direct drive tech in theory, but I was not bowled over compared t much lower priced MSH Dacs, the mid-range stuff….and I generally like MSB dacs.

At $90K, modularity is not a value feature anymore. At $5K to $20K maybe, but above the target market does not care that much.

Modularity is also irrelevant if disruptive tech comes out, as the only thing left is the baseboard and chassis that may be salvageable. At that point, perhaps a new greenfield build is way to go. There is no definitive answer here and you will see people doing one or the other going forward.

 

[edorr]

That's something they don't offer as a standard option. I got it done because I know the engineer who designed the DAC (and the Sabre line of DAC chips) And the ESS headquarters is right down the road from me. The reason I have this DAC was because they were going to supply the OEM DAC's for my active speakers. So I bought 2 of these unit's to clock sync together in a active 2 way system to test how they sound. I had the unit that was going to be "master" factory upgraded with a lower jitter clock. But as it turned out, Dustin is simply too busy working on the next generation of SOTA Sabre DAC chips to take on this project. So I had to look elsewhere. I love the DAC, but I'm building my own now, so just don't need it. I sold the other one already, and don't expect this one to last long at this price.

Sounds like someone paying retail would take a 50% hit on this rather esoteric piece of gear in three years. Pretty standard range among both modular and non modular DACs. The best you can do is buy one about a year old for 60% of retail and resell with a small loss after 2 years of use. I have rotated through quite a few DACs and broken even many times. Lost my shirt on the "upgradeable" MSB DAC I owned though. Oh well....

 

[Blizzard]

Sounds like someone paying retail would take a 50% hit on this rather esoteric piece of gear in three years. Pretty standard range among both modular and non modular DACs. The best you can do is buy one about a year old for 60% of retail and resell with a small loss after 2 years of use. I have rotated through quite a few DACs and broken even many times. Lost my shirt on the "upgradeable" MSB DAC I owned though. Oh well....

The average selling price for this 3 year old design is $4000 on the used market. How is that a 50% hit? Sounds more like a 20% hit after 3 years to me. And once the new upgrade boards come out, it will be a new DAC again and resale value will probably take a boost! Chances are the DAC will go up to around $6000 MSRP after the new chip/analog board upgrade. This is a prime example of how you build value into a product.

In contrast, the Esoteric K-01 suffered a 70% hit within a matter of months of the K-01X release.

 

[edorr]

The average selling price for this 3 year old design is $4000 on the used market. How is that a 50% hit? Sounds more like a 20% hit after 3 years to me. And once the new upgrade boards come out, it will be a new DAC again and resale value will probably take a boost! Chances are the DAC will go up to around $6000 MSRP after the new chip/analog board upgrade. This is a prime example of how you build value into a product.

In contrast, the Esoteric K-01 suffered a 70% hit within a matter of months of the K-01X release.

So I should I buy yours so I can make a grand in easy profit. Strange how no one has jumped on the opportunity yet.

 

[Blizzard]

So I should I buy yours so I can make a grand in easy profit. Strange how no one has jumped on the opportunity yet.

If you want I just listed it on Audiogon an hour ago. I may have to give it a bit longer.


Here's the last one that sold:

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/d...-dac-2015-10-14-digital-63131-des-peres-mo--2

And mine:

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-resonessence-labs-mirus-2015-12-02-digital-v4t2p9

And I'm even including shipping

 

[edorr]

If you want I just listed it on Audiogon an hour ago. I may have to give it a bit longer.


Here's the last one that sold:

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/d...-dac-2015-10-14-digital-63131-des-peres-mo--2

And mine:

https://app.audiogon.com/listings/da-converters-resonessence-labs-mirus-2015-12-02-digital-v4t2p9

And I'm even including shipping

Yours is listed as 5 months old and a 10/10, selling at 40% below MSRP. Seems like the well established depreciation range applies. i sold a 1 year old EMM labs DAC at 30% below MSRP.

Not very compelling evidence these modular DACs are worth 70% of MSRP after three years.....

 

[Blizzard]

Yours is listed as 5 months old and a 10/10, selling at 40% below MSRP. Seems like the well established depreciation range applies. i sold a 1 year old EMM labs DAC at 30% below MSRP.

Not very compelling evidence these modular DACs are worth 70% of MSRP after three years.....

That's because I'm selling mine for way cheaper than it's worth. Find another one for sale for under $4000. Not my choice. My wife doesn't think I need a dozen DAC's in the house Besides Resonessence doesn't make it very well known that this unit is upgradeable. Something they should make people more aware of. They are just too busy designing and building the chips that over 50% of the high end DAC's on the market use to put the same effort into marketing most of their competitors do. Resonessence Labs is just a side project for them to showcase the Sabre chips in the best way possible.