MSB Select II arrival

[CKKeung]

Dear Sir,
In the picture, it seems the Select components are designed to allow stacking up on top of one another. The designer of this brand doesnt leave anything for granted. Have you tried stacking them on top and maybe only use some sort of vibe mgt platform under only the first component?
Kind regards, Tang

Hello Tang,
Only the top (occupied by Select Transport) and bottom levels of my rack have room adequate for stacking the Powerbases up.
I didn't try and compare the the placements bcos I was quite exhausted after setting them up in the current config.

Yes, the chassis of Select Series is designed to be stackable.
However my local MSB dealer told me that they give better sonic performance if are placed separately.

I guess Mike can give more comments on this aspect as he has Tana platforms and tried so.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Dear Sir,

In the picture, it seems the Select components are designed to allow stacking up on top of one another. The designer of this brand doesnt leave anything for granted. Have you tried stacking them on top and maybe only use some sort of vibe mgt platform under only the first component?

Kind regards,
Tang

Hello Tang,
Only the top (occupied by Select Transport) and bottom levels of my rack have room adequate for stacking the Powerbases up.
I didn't try and compare the the placements bcos I was quite exhausted after setting them up in the current config.

Yes, the chassis of Select Series is designed to be stackable.
However my local MSB dealer told me that they give better sonic performance if are placed separately.

I guess Mike can give more comments on this aspect as he has Tana platforms and tried so.

the Select II works best with each box on a separate shelf. my units came with soft rubber footers that can be used for stacking, which i did briefly try when i first got it when i only had the single power supply. quickly i changed to separate shelves, and later added the Taiko Tana under the main dac box. and more than separate shelves, improving the decoupling method for the power supply boxes matters too for performance, as does grounding. i even use BDR (Black Diamond Racing) carbon fiber cones from my Taiko Tana shelf interface with the MSB dac box.

recently MSB changed the interface from the rubber one's to better one's but i have not tried the new one's as i have no interest in stacking. i think that MSB is seeing their customers find additional performance and following their lead.

talking to Emile and Ed from Taiko about their research, they found that sympathetic resonance from stacking components became additional noise by a multiple of that resonance. maybe Emile could comment.

aesthetically no doubt stacking looks awesome, like CH Precision does. but i find every piece of electronics i've used benefits from isolation both electromagnetically and mechanically. observe the extreme efforts made with solid billet casework and internal isolation. huge efforts along those lines are found more and more as we go up the food chain.

MSB Select II will sound great when stacked, but it's not optimal. when you have made this level of commitment to the highest level of digital performance you need to finish the deal.

 

[CKKeung]

Thanks Mike for the sharing.

I think the same applies to CH Precision.
I found their products gave better performance when placed separately.

 

[jonyung]

Thanks Mike for the sharing.

I think the same applies to CH Precision.
I found their products gave better performance when placed separately.

Dear CK

Much congratulations on your latest quest. I have been looking for my digital set up for a long time and this thread as well as your experience in most if not all end game DACs has answered alot of my queries as in Hong Kong, it's not as easy to have home demos as in the USA and it's sometimes difficult to make serious decisions based on shop demos....

Congrats

 

[adyc]

Stacking CH Precision gears are different. They have internal steel rods such that vibrations from one component will not affect the other. Their manual has more details.

 

[Matej Isak]

Would like to tell you that I have just joined this "Select DAC Club".
Very happy!

It's a mono Powerbase version and with Ref33 clock option :

View attachment 50610

Congrats and welcome to the MSB Select DAC club! And you're already a member of The Bespoke Audio Company Silver club .

 

[CKKeung]

Stacking CH Precision gears are different. They have internal steel rods such that vibrations from one component will not affect the other. Their manual has more details.

Yes, the construction is similar to and from Goldmund products. Haha

But if you have a good rack, placing CH Precision or Goldmund components separately definitely give better sonic performance.

 

[Kingsrule]

the Select II works best with each box on a separate shelf. my units came with soft rubber footers that can be used for stacking, which i did briefly try when i first got it when i only had the single power supply. quickly i changed to separate shelves, and later added the Taiko Tana under the main dac box. and more than separate shelves, improving the decoupling method for the power supply boxes matters too for performance, as does grounding. i even use BDR (Black Diamond Racing) carbon fiber cones from my Taiko Tana shelf interface with the MSB dac box.

recently MSB changed the interface from the rubber one's to better one's but i have not tried the new one's as i have no interest in stacking. i think that MSB is seeing their customers find additional performance and following their lead.

talking to Emile and Ed from Taiko about their research, they found that sympathetic resonance from stacking components became additional noise by a multiple of that resonance. maybe Emile could comment.

aesthetically no doubt stacking looks awesome, like CH Precision does. but i find every piece of electronics i've used benefits from isolation both electromagnetically and mechanically. observe the extreme efforts made with solid billet casework and internal isolation. huge efforts along those lines are found more and more as we go up the food chain.

MSB Select II will sound great when stacked, but it's not optimal. when you have made this level of commitment to the highest level of digital performance you need to finish the deal.

Not exactly
The rubber footers haven't been included in almost a year
In addition, if u haven't tried stacking with the small metal spikes that come with the units (which appears u haven't tried), u are not reporting an accurate picture. It's a lot closer to individual shelves than with the old rubber feet. For the last 1% individual shelves are most likely best, depending on the shelf and rack. U are probably the only person who has each piece on a Herzan ( or the tweaked version). Also, the mono power bases run at different temps, the warmer one on the "analogue" part of the dac and the other on the digital side. I find that with my Niagara ps, the warmer one sounds best on the high current outlet and the digital one on the isolation outlet. In my system I have the DAC on a stock TS140, metal cones, sitting on BDR cups. The 2 power bases are on individual shelves sitting on the spikes. My racks are from Herzan.
Hope this helps.....

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Not exactly
The rubber footers haven't been included in almost a year
In addition, if u haven't tried stacking with the small metal spikes that come with the units (which appears u haven't tried), u are not reporting an accurate picture. It's a lot closer to individual shelves than with the old rubber feet. For the last 1% individual shelves are most likely best, depending on the shelf and rack. U are probably the only person who has each piece on a Herzan ( or the tweaked version). Also, the mono power bases run at different temps, the warmer one on the "analogue" part of the dac and the other on the digital side. I find that with my Niagara ps, the warmer one sounds best on the high current outlet and the digital one on the isolation outlet. In my system I have the DAC on a stock TS140, metal cones, sitting on BDR cups. The 2 power bases are on individual shelves sitting on the spikes. My racks are from Herzan.
Hope this helps.....

great feedback, Kingsrule, i agree with everything you said. great idea on the separate A/C outlets, makes sense and i will try that.

i only have my MSB dac box on the Taiko Tana TS-150 shelf, the other 2 are on separate shelves on Dazia's, as is my SGM 2015 server. as will my new SGM Extreme. my plan is to get another Tana TS-150 'soon' for the Extreme, but not an additional Tana LPS and just use the LPS from my new Tana arriving for my tt this next week when i switch from tt to digital. my MSB power supplies will remain on the Dazia's.

not familiar with exactly which Herzan rack you use. does it have passive isolation? or is it a solid rack?

the performance difference getting rid of the SMPS in the stock Herzan is considerable, even if it's a modest LPS. then adding the 10mm panzerholtz layer top to the aluminum top is another step up, as is the Dazia on top, then the Tana LPS, then another Dazia (+Setchi) under the LPS. your dac box will enjoy each step up. but ditching that SMPS is cheap and easy to do regardless of whether you go further.

 

[Taiko Audio]

talking to Emile and Ed from Taiko about their research, they found that sympathetic resonance from stacking components became additional noise by a multiple of that resonance. maybe Emile could comment.

Yes correct, each component has its own unique resonance spectrum, coupling components changes their spectrum and adds “cross contamination”. It becomes a very complex model of internally generated resonance, reactive resonance on externally applied vibrations and behaviour of the entire structure.

We now have software to model this but even getting it modelled accurately is complicated, to say the least!

CK, congratulations!!!

 

[CKKeung]

Not exactly
The rubber footers haven't been included in almost a year
In addition, if u haven't tried stacking with the small metal spikes that come with the units (which appears u haven't tried), u are not reporting an accurate picture. It's a lot closer to individual shelves than with the old rubber feet. For the last 1% individual shelves are most likely best, depending on the shelf and rack. U are probably the only person who has each piece on a Herzan ( or the tweaked version). Also, the mono power bases run at different temps, the warmer one on the "analogue" part of the dac and the other on the digital side. I find that with my Niagara ps, the warmer one sounds best on the high current outlet and the digital one on the isolation outlet. In my system I have the DAC on a stock TS140, metal cones, sitting on BDR cups. The 2 power bases are on individual shelves sitting on the spikes. My racks are from Herzan.
Hope this helps.....

Thanks kingrule!
Very useful info, particularly the part on diff powercord/power-conditioning needed for the two mono powerbases.

Yes, the soft footer of Select Series has been discontinued.
Stainless steel spikes & plates are included in the package nowadays.
But the HK dealer was so kind that they dug out from their warehouse 3 sets of soft footers and gave them to me for free.

I am using the soft footers for their easier installation but will try the spike&plate out after the dac has settled down.

 

[CKKeung]

An update on my newly acquired Select DAC :
My ProISL module for connecting Select Transport & Select DAC arrived last week.




It's super quiet right at the beginning of use.
And after run-in for a few days, has become very musical too.

The ProISL optical connection easily KO my previous AES connection by the Kubula Sosna Elation aes digital cable or Habst 5N Silver Cryo aes digital cable, despite I had already used a Blackcat bnc cable to let the Select DAC clocked the Select Transport.

And the ProISL set is much lower in cost too.

My salute to the Gullman brothers for this fabulous and extremely cost-effective invention!

I have 100% confidence on the new optical ProUSB module too and will get one for sure!

 

[Emorante]

the same here arrived from a week in trial on reference with renderer, roon and melco module. minimal differences and therefore great results. my setup lan enjoys the melco and fmc in the path. regards

 

[pleroma]

Did anyone upgrade to the mono powerbases after having the dual (single) PB? I'm wondering about your impressions of the magnitude of the upgrade. Thanks.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Did anyone upgrade to the mono powerbases after having the dual (single) PB? I'm wondering about your impressions of the magnitude of the upgrade. Thanks.

in this thread with post #1099 i start to describe my experience of going from the dual power base to the twin mono power base's.

ttps://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/msb-select-ii-arrival.23302/page-55#post-466257

it's a big, big difference.

later on in this thread i do end up getting each box on a separate shelf which helps performance and then adding another active device just for the dac box helps again more.

 

[pleroma]

in this thread with post #1099 i start to describe my experience of going from the dual power base to the twin mono power base's.

ttps://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/msb-select-ii-arrival.23302/page-55#post-466257

it's a big, big difference.

later on in this thread i do end up getting each box on a separate shelf which helps performance and then adding another active device just for the dac box helps again more.

Thanks Mike. Your posts have made me reconsider this. I should also take another look at isolation.

EDIT: and I'm now wondering how much an active device would help with a second-story floor (3/4" OSB decking on wooden I-joists).

 

[asiufy]

I've found out that the power supply upgrade is particularly important if you're driving the amps directly from the MSB, as you'll be freeing one PS to handle the analog section on its own, and the 2nd base will only power the digital section. The added drive/impact with that 2nd supply is simply amazing. Since you're using a conditioner, I'd even consider plugging the analog supply power base on the wall, and the digital one on the conditioner.

cheers,
Alex

 

[pleroma]

Thank you Alex.

 

[CKKeung]

Hello fellow Select DAC owners,

A Select DAC owner in HK told me that there were 2 internal fuses per Mono Powerbase and he had changed them to Synergistic Research Black fuses with very good result.

Have you performed similar tweaks?
Or not willing to do so because of warranty worry?

Please share.
Thanks!

 

[koalakoala]

According to the manual, there are supposed to be one main fuse and one unused fuse (in each power base presumably).

I bought a brimar fuse last year and was trying to swap it in, but the local dealer convinced me not to do so, claiming that the original fuse was most balanced. I may yet try again sometime later.

No, I don't care about the waranty. I swapped in a brimar fuse for my dago momentum s250 earlier, and it sounds glorious.

Cheers