MSB's new Sentinel DAC

[MarkusBarkus]

...it should include good cables for that scratch. It's all good fun.

 

[gionaz]

Poor audiophiles, blind in their pursuit,
the horizon always there, never reached.
Each step forward is but a reflection
of what forever remains beyond.

There are entities beyond commerce, like The Sentinel, asserting a higher order that requires no negotiation...only recognition...
They reshape influence, weaving power with unyielding threads, a silent return to greatness. True supremacy is not an idea, but a force that cannot be ignored. To be the best is to be the unshakable center of a self-revolving system, a point of reference beyond reach, valued not by cost, but by its intangible essence. Only the bold, willing to pay the highest price in spirit and intent, can claim the throne. Supremacy lies not in proclamation, but in unyielding, incorruptible reality...

 

[battles]

I’m not defending the price point of the Sentinel, but I thoroughly enjoy my Cascade every day, while my sports car sits unused in the garage 95% of the year. Suspect most of us who can afford this hobby are well into middle age. We ain’t bringing it with us, so for those who have the means, spend on what you enjoy. I’m sure the Sentinel will be spectacular.

 

[thedudeabides]

$300K would have been way too cheap. $375K indeed seems a more reasonable number.

Absolutely. So now we have the Varese, the Wadax and the Sentinel north of $300K. Is that correct? What's a serious audiophile to do?.

 

[AudioLibertarian]

$300K would have been way too cheap. $375K indeed seems a more reasonable number.

A scene from "Coming to America" film comes to mind when Sammy (played by Arsenio Hall) is trying to send a telegram to the King of Zamunda requesting money to be sent to them: -Your Majesty, Please wire us US$250 000, oh wait , that won't be enough, lets make it 500 000"- At which point the Western Union agent exclaims: Why not just ask for a whole million?!!!"

Pardon my grammar, etc.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Didn't the same thing happen with uber tonearms?
I don't recall any being close to $25k.
Then SAT launched theirs at that price.
Suddenly, there was more than one.

 

[bonzo75]

What's a serious audiophile to do?.

Loot banks? Alternatively, find a forum where he is high end at his price point? It is all in in the eye of a few fellow forum posters what is high end, after all.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...a casino heist seems sexier, somehow.

New global harmonized tax schedule for audio:
--DACs are allowed two boxes. Each additional box is taxed at 100%.
--Amps have a 100 lb. / 46 kg. maximum weight. Each additional 10 lbs. / 4.6 kg. is taxed at 50%. Mono blocs are still required to meet the 100 lb./46 kg. spec.
--Turntables are taxed at 200%. However, there is no tax on vinyl.
--All cables are sold in three-foot / one-meter increments, and priced per pound/kg. based on market commodity copper prices. Exotic metals are not allowed. Cable maximum of 10 feet / 3 kg. Cables exceeding specified max. will be confiscated; however, cables purchased before January 15, 2025 are grand-fathered in. Ron, is safe with the world's longest ICs.
--All private component sales are taxed at 200%. This will reduce churn and disincentivize manufacturers from introducing short upgrade cycles.

This should sort out the marketplace. Schedules and rates subject to change. Please see your dealer for details.

 

[Lee]

I’m not defending the price point of the Sentinel, but I thoroughly enjoy my Cascade every day, while my sports car sits unused in the garage 95% of the year. Suspect most of us who can afford this hobby are well into middle age. We ain’t bringing it with us, so for those who have the means, spend on what you enjoy. I’m sure the Sentinel will be spectacular.

I really enjoyed talking to Vince and listening to the Cascade at Axpona. The new algorithm really elevates it.

 

[battles]

No question that this is a luxury purchase, but MSB, et al, aren’t targeting audiophiles for whom $375K (or whatever street price their purchasing it at) would feel the sting of the purchase. IMHO, uber components like these would be a waste of dough unless one had a system, professionally designed dedicated listening room, power infrastructure, etc commensurate with their sonic capabilities. My guess a $1.25 - $2M investment in the preceding. IMO, that’s the market for this level of DAC. And, if there’s any silver lining for the rest of us, the “value line” of components offered by MSB, Wadax, dCS all benefit from the R&D that was invested in their flashship components at a significantly lower price point.

 

[battles]

I really enjoyed talking to Vince and listening to the Cascade at Axpona. The new algorithm really elevates it.

Yes - the bit diffusion has very noticeably elevated the Cascade. I’m very happy with my purchase and have no regrets. Considering it also serves as a high end preamp, it’s a compelling package for those audiophiles in the market at this price point.

 

[thedudeabides]

The problem with uber pricing is it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Once one manufacturer does it, and the market adjusts to and accepts that as a "reasonable" price (actual product demand and sales) for a no holds barred SOTA product, other manufacturers of the same ilk, or a new kid on the block like Wadax, are "green lighted" and the cycle begins. Not saying there is not some justification for elevated pricing (R and D, etc.) but at some point, it becomes marketing and belies common sense and any understandable attachment to reality. Speaker pricing is one obvious example.

I don't begrudge (or morally judge) wealthy people that can afford and buy such products. Their money, their choices. However In "my" ideal world, I'd prefer they donate their disposable funds to help address "real world" crisesises for those less fortunate. But for normal everyday audio loving folks, these prices are literally impossible to comprehend. And in my view, negatively impacts the hi end audio market in general.

 

[thedudeabides]

I’m not defending the price point of the Sentinel.

Realistically, who can? Glad you like your Cascade.

 

[Elliot G.]

The problem with uber pricing is it's a self fulfilling prophecy. Once one manufacturer does it, and the market adjusts to and accepts that as a "reasonable" price (actual product demand and sales) for a no holds barred SOTA product, other manufacturers of the same ilk, or a new kid on the block like Wadax, are "green lighted" and the cycle begins. Not saying there is not some justification for elevated pricing (R and D, etc.) but at some point, it becomes marketing and belies common sense and any understandable attachment to reality. Speaker pricing is one obvious example.

I don't begrudge (or morally judge) wealthy people that can afford and buy such products. Their money, their choices. However In "my" ideal world, I'd prefer they donate their disposable funds to help address "real world" crisesises for those less fortunate. But for normal everyday audio loving folks, these prices are literally impossible to comprehend. And in my view, negatively impacts the hi end audio market in general.

I agree with part of your reply. Like many things in our world the discoveries of new materials, technologies and ways to measure such are constantly allowing companies to make new products and many that are better than in the past. The costs for these is always escalating to so many increased costs, regulations, insurance, energy and some greed? I personally have no clue where all this uber priced gear goes. How many six figure plus speakers are now available? 300k plus digital systems are not sold regularly even to the rich and 50k tone arms, 25000 cartidges 250k turntables all follow the same fate.
My opinion is that many of these products are built for the ATABOY and the praise of the ones that never buy. I do however think that these status/prestige/reference/SOTA items do help the brands name. I don't have the statistics or the ability to get them to see if these adventures are worth the cost of development but if I was to guess my reply would be maybe for some.
Infinity
Wilson
Magico
Wadax
Rockport
Audio Research
Goldmund
and many others help build their brands by making a statement. This I understand but IMO many others today make expensive stuff because they can not because it is required.

I personally don't get the envy and hatred towards those who can buy these things. I don't have a Ferrari or a GT3 or a large boat or a large home or two or three and I'm truly not bothered by it. Most of the most unhappy people I know are the rich ones. Having a lot does not equate to enjoying a lot.
Enjoy music at whatever level and life all of those here on WBF should have very little to bitch about.

 

[thedudeabides]

and many others help build their brands by making a statement. This I understand but IMO many others today make expensive stuff because they can not because it is required.

Understood. Never thought of it that way but it does make sense.

Most of the most unhappy people I know are the rich ones. Having a lot does not equate to enjoying a lot.

Interesting insight. Wonder why that is? Lack of self worth and meaningful relationships I suspect. Quite the paradox.

Thanks for your response. Best.

 

[battles]

Agree, money doesn’t buy happiness, but having some surely helps with this hobby. Just when you think you’ve saved enough fun money for that flagship DAC, it becomes out of reach yet again!

 

[Lee]

Keep in mind, some of the pricing is driven by heavy R&D costs by the manufacturer and some of it is recognition of the new luxury customer segment.

I am reluctant to criticize pricing without some data such as the Bill of Materials.

 

[Elliot G.]

Keep in mind, some of the pricing is driven by heavy R&D costs by the manufacturer and some of it is recognition of the new luxury customer segment.

I am reluctant to criticize pricing without some data such as the Bill of Materials.

Perhaps some of these products have no reason to be built ! I can think of companies that have new products at every show or have introduced dozens of products in a short time . That’s not R and D it’s something else but I won’t say it as to not offend anyone.
R and D isn’t throwing a bunch of stuff in a box and highlighting some silly technical statement like some sort of material as a breakthrough .
if you really make great stuff you don’t need to change it every season !

 

[Lee]

Perhaps some of these products have no reason to be built ! I can think of companies that have new products at every show or have introduced dozens of products in a short time . That’s not R and D it’s something else but I won’t say it as to not offend anyone.
R and D isn’t throwing a bunch of stuff in a box and highlighting some silly technical statement like some sort of material as a breakthrough .
if you really make great stuff you don’t need to change it every season !

I agree with that. Most of these flagship efforts are multi-year developments which makes the expense seem more reasonable imho.

 

[pk_LA]

I think the debate on price is somewhat arbitrary. On another popular audio forum you could copy and paste the posts from this thread and change the price under discussion to $10,000. But, here on WBF, members have generally accepted $10,000 to be a reasonable price. With that in mind, who are you (or we) to declare and mock $375,000 as ridiculous. To be clear, I find all the high-end audio gear to be ridiculously priced and a product of the one of the world's most inefficient industries/markets. Yet, I am a consumer of it. I am willing to pay a premium in the pursuit of, "what's best."