Multi-bit DSD versus PCM

[Blizzard]

Definitely. I would certainly put money towards the front end. The Tascam has digital in/out, so you can always add a great ADC later. The better the TT, the quieter your rips would be. I've had to spend MUCH LESS time fixing pops/ticks/rumble in a higher end TT than a mediocre one. Besides, that last 10% on the digital side is where the point of diminishing returns kicks in. A Horus with ADC/DAC and Pyramix software is going to be close to $15k

Yes but he would never need the Horus unless he required 16 channels of ADC/DAC. The Hapi is the same thing, only has 2 less expansion slots. Would you have bought the Horus if the Hapi was out at the time you bought the Horus? Do you actually use all 16 channels?

 

[Blizzard]

Okay - thanks Bruce. That is good enough for me then. $15k actually improves a vinyl rig by a lot IMHO.

All you would need is the Hapi to have 8 channels of ADC. The Horus is the same thing with 2 extra expansion slots. unless you need 16 channels of ADC/DAC, you don't need a Horus. You also should consider that you can pop the DAC board into the Hapi that's the same board as in The NADAC that gives Ian's uber high end vinyl rig a run for the money (preferred by his friend). Total cost for Hapi, ADC/DAC and Pyramix mastering pack is under $10000. And you would have 8 channel capability. Everything in 1 box. You could sell the GG for more than that and have the whole system.

Vinyl rippers dream system. If you want to add additional warmth of tubes, do it on the analog end, or in the preamp. This system will be able to produce an indistinguishable replica of your analog rig all with 1 box ADC/DAC. You can't ask for better than that.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

All you would need is the Hapi to have 8 channels of ADC. The Horus is the same thing with 2 extra expansion slots. unless you need 16 channels of ADC/DAC, you don't need a Horus. You also should consider that you can pop the DAC board into the Hapi that's the same board as in The NADAC that gives Ian's uber high end vinyl rig a run for the money (preferred by his friend). Total cost for Hapi, ADC/DAC and Pyramix mastering pack is under $10000. And you would have 8 channel capability. Everything in 1 box. You could sell the GG for more than that and have the whole system.

Vinyl rippers dream system. If you want to add additional warmth of tubes, do it on the analog end, or in the preamp. This system will be able to produce an indistinguishable replica of your analog rig all with 1 box ADC/DAC. You can't ask for better than that.


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Question is whether $10k on this will deliver a better "file" than Tascam + $10k on vinyl rig. Alas I don't have the Kronos pro with all that loveliness that Ian has.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

It would be interesting to set up a blinded file test on wbf. If various members all over the world acquire a new vinyl album - say the Eva Cassidy one that is popular on the other thread and we select one track say Autumn Leaves and then Amir or someone coordinate dissemination - I.e. We get sent 8 files (for example) and then we rank them in order of preference and see what happens. Would be interesting - we can plot some regressions such as cost of analogue rig against preference status.

 

[Blizzard]

Question is whether $10k on this will deliver a better "file" than Tascam + $10k on vinyl rig. Alas I don't have the Kronos pro with all that loveliness that Ian has.

You are forgetting about the $20000 DAC you have in the picture with the Tascam. You wouldn't need it anymore with the Hapi. You could sell it, own all of this, and still have change left over in your pocket. Even run a home theater setup with the extra 6 channels.

 

[Blizzard]

It would be interesting to set up a blinded file test on wbf. If various members all over the world acquire a new vinyl album - say the Eva Cassidy one that is popular on the other thread and we select one track say Autumn Leaves and then Amir or someone coordinate dissemination - I.e. We get sent 8 files (for example) and then we rank them in order of preference and see what happens. Would be interesting - we can plot some regressions such as cost of analogue rig against preference status.

Someone needs to make the vinyl rips in order for this test to work. And the quality of his rig, and techniques, filters etc will determine the outcome. But I bet if Bruce had the master tape, fat chance in anyone being able to beat his version. If they do, it's only because they have an subjective preference toward coloration's and non-linearities.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

You are forgetting about the $20000 DAC you have in the picture with the Tascam. You wouldn't need it anymore with the Hapi. You could sell it, own all of this, and still have change left over in your pocket. Even run a home theater setup with the extra 6 channels.

I am far too attached to the GG to part ways with it. It is a hugely enjoyable source for me and you either love the coloration a of the DHTs or not but I do.

 

[Blizzard]

I am far too attached to the GG to part ways with it. It is a hugely enjoyable source for me and you either love the coloration a of the DHTs or not but I do.

So do you not like the sound of your vinyl rig? If the Hapi can replicate your vinyl rig 100%, then why do you need the added coloration's of the DHT tubes? They are not in the playback chain of your vinyl rig. Get a preamp with DHT tubes instead and run the vinyl and digital through it. Even better put the preamp before the ADC when making the rips and embed the DHT sound into the recording. Whether the DHT coloration is before the ADC, or after makes no difference. It would save tube life to just use the DHT tubes to make your rips only.

Then you can have the DHT sound everywhere. In the car, portable player etc.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Someone needs to make the vinyl rips in order for this test to work. And the quality of his rig, and techniques, filters etc will determine the outcome. But I bet if Bruce had the master tape, fat chance in anyone being able to beat his version. If they do, it's only because they have an subjective preference toward coloration's and non-linearities.

Ah - you are looking at it with a different lens of scientific rigour. I am more interested in real world setting. So we are letting people from all over the place use whatever kit and software they want to make the rip but as long as it is of the same LP. There are lots of variables I agree but it would be interesting.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

So do you not like the sound of your vinyl rig? If the Hapi can replicate your vinyl rig 100%, then why do you need the added coloration's of the DHT tubes? They are not in the playback chain of your vinyl rig.

I do like my vinyl rig although no doubt it could be better as I have heard much better

I like the coloration of DHTs for my digitally sourced music. My 5TB of flac, dsd etc. Also for Tidal streaming.

 

[Bruce B]

All you would need is the Hapi to have 8 channels of ADC. The Horus is the same thing with 2 extra expansion slots. unless you need 16 channels of ADC/DAC, you don't need a Horus. You also should consider that you can pop the DAC board into the Hapi that's the same board as in The NADAC that gives Ian's uber high end vinyl rig a run for the money (preferred by his friend). Total cost for Hapi, ADC/DAC and Pyramix mastering pack is under $10000. And you would have 8 channel capability. Everything in 1 box. You could sell the GG for more than that and have the whole system.

Vinyl rippers dream system. If you want to add additional warmth of tubes, do it on the analog end, or in the preamp. This system will be able to produce an indistinguishable replica of your analog rig all with 1 box ADC/DAC. You can't ask for better than that.

The Horus allows you to do Surround mastering, plus, since it's bigger, has a different PS. Then you have the problem of getting a compatible Win 7Pro system and learning the software.

Plus, you need to get the Native PRO Mastering Pack for the higher Sampling rates, which is more $$.

Merging Technologies

 

[Bruce B]

Someone needs to make the vinyl rips in order for this test to work. And the quality of his rig, and techniques, filters etc will determine the outcome. But I bet if Bruce had the master tape, fat chance in anyone being able to beat his version. If they do, it's only because they have an subjective preference toward coloration's and non-linearities.

I've posted several times files I've done from different converters for folks to blindly listen to.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I forgot to mention that the Tascam does DA with balanced analogue outputs also.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I've posted several times files I've done from different converters for folks to blindly listen to.

Hi Bruce - do you still have links to these. Would be curious to listen to them.

 

[Blizzard]

The Horus allows you to do Surround mastering, plus, since it's bigger, has a different PS. Then you have the problem of getting a compatible Win 7Pro system and learning the software.

But for Bill's application, he's not going to be mastering surround mixes. The Hapi has an external DC input if one wanted to upgrade the power supply. The power supply is probably only bigger because the extra 2 boards will require more power to run. Both are SMPS's. SMPS's are perfectly fine when you use LDO's and circuity with very high PSRR. This is why we are seeing more and more DAC's using SMPS. They put the DC input on the back so guys who have a bias to the buzzword of LPS's, can use an LPS with it. This is when they will likely find no audible improvement.

Yes he will need a PC with Window's pro installed on it, but I'm sure he has this already. And yes there's the learning curve, but I'm sure he could figure it out. Everyone else did who bought it. Takes dedication if you want to raise the bar. Nobody said going this route was for the average audiophile

 

[Bruce B]

Hi Bruce - do you still have links to these. Would be curious to listen to them.

Folks would have to PM me their email address so I can send them via Hightail

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I am clearly too lazy for the Merging route. The raison detre of the Tascam is ease of operation for me and lack of even having to try hard yet still get a darned good result. No computer - just cf or sd card is huge upside for me.

I don't have Windows 7 pro just standard Windows 10 and honestly I don't want to muck about with my computer doing this - it is too painful. I used to do this with a Focusrite and audacity - lol - cheap version.

 

[Blizzard]

I am clearly too lazy for the Merging route. The raison detre of the Tascam is ease of operation for me and lack of even having to try hard yet still get a darned good result. No computer - just cf or sd card is huge upside for me.

I don't have Windows 7 pro just standard Windows 10 and honestly I don't want to muck about with my computer doing this - it is too painful. I used to do this with a Focusrite and audacity - lol - cheap version.

I guess we will have to rely on Bruce for the best sounding albums then

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I guess we will have to rely on Bruce for the best sounding albums then

I think so. Doesn't help me though since I have a huge stack of vinyl of my own so want to make life convenient by archiving it in dsd.

 

[Blizzard]

I think so. Doesn't help me though since I have a huge stack of vinyl of my own so want to make life convenient by archiving it in dsd.

Bruce needs to offer this service. I was thinking about it but it would be a huge initial investment to obtain a rig worthy enough that people would pay for the service. Bruce has the gear though

Send in your vinyl collection and have it archived to quad DSD with the best gear, and the best skill

Then every time you want a new record, just buy it for Bruce, he can archive it, and send you the quad DSD download I can just imagine his collection after a while That's a pretty good trade. And it saves the expense and hassle of even needing a vinyl/ADC rig at all.

What do you say Bruce? Or would you rather roll around in the new SL?