Munich HighEnd 2024

[Audiohertz2]

I have a full Aries Cerat system and I love it and was able to demo it in an actual room vs an audio show or dealer showroom. What I have never understood about shows is and this is not an indictment with AC but all audio manufacturers, why don't you display products that will actually sell to the common audiophile? I once went to the Newport Beach audio show and after spending two there,
i was enamored with the sound of this tiny 6" speaker. I ended up buying a pair for my son. How many people can afford the Contendo?

The AC system was a statement setup , a necessity for any designer with dangles ..!

 

[hopkins]

I did go, you can find my report a few posts above. Did you? I'd be curious to know your impressions.

I found everything I wanted to hear at Munich. From Elvis to CoS, Nina Hagen to Pink Floyd, Coltrane(s) to Mussorgsky, Laura Marling to Pergolesi. We found a room playing full albums, like Fado by Bastarda and João de Sousa. I didn't hear a single mention to this, probably nobody even noticed it wasn't a playlist, normal if 30 sec residence time is an ok metric.

Is there anyone here keeping a track of everything that was played, at all times, in all rooms? How can someone say that they'd like to have heard more of *something specific* if they only stayed at any given room for a discrete period of time? They might have played *your thing* immediately before you came in, or after you left, and you'd literally never know. The people running the rooms are most likely idiots (they can never win), of course.

My point is there is a weird set of expectations floating around, and a weird set of discourses (objectively unfounded) that implicitly make an otherwise joyous time and event look like an idiot convention, simply because I didn't hear enough of what I think is best for ME to assess according to MY tastes, that of course are universal. It's a form of poisoning the well, I simply don't get what positive thing people get out of it apart from chest drumming. But everyone is, of course, free to do it to their heart's content.

It is what it is...you just have to do with what the vendors decide to play.

It's interesting to consider whether we really need specific tracks to help us reveal the strengths and weaknesses of a system. I'd say that any music can give us a pretty good idea of the "personality" of a system/room, and an audio show is not the place for in-depth analysis of a system anyway.

I'll add that the best thing to do, prior to a show, may be to familiarize ourselves with a wide variety of music on our own system (or with headphones). I often also take note of the tracks demoed and listen to them after at home.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Exactly .

Fm acoustics plays real world music

Not like some other brands who play safe ping ping music .

Listened to an FMA video last night it was fantastic sounding off utoob , Roberta Flack ..!

 

[tima]

My point is there is a weird set of expectations floating around, and a weird set of discourses (objectively unfounded) that implicitly make an otherwise joyous time and event look like an idiot convention, simply because I didn't hear enough of what I think is best for ME to assess according to MY tastes, that of course are universal. It's a form of poisoning the well, I simply don't get what positive thing people get out of it apart from chest drumming. But everyone is, of course, free to do it to their heart's content.

Okay. I understand your perspective and thanks for the follow-up. Mine seems different.

I don't think self-interest is poisoning the well. There is a sense where one needs to trust one's judgement. If I get nothing from an exhibit because it's playing pachenko music, then I say to myself, 'that wasn't helpful'. It doesn't work to deny my opinion to myself -- that would be acting in bad faith. That's my reaction and having it impacts no one else and changes little about the relative joyous time others may have listening to it. Maybe it comes from being a reviewer disinclined to gloss over what I think for the sake of a happy opinion or some amorphous other thing.

My original point was I did not hear much in the way of unprocessed acoustic music in the videos I saw of the show and the music I did hear was not engaging. (Okay it was mostly shlock.) I believe acoustic music is important for assessing audio systems and components. I don't believe that is a radical opinion. No one needs agree with that, but that is what works for me.

 

[KeithR]

And? You have to play a wide range of music . You don’t think people listen to chamber music at home? I sure do…love string quartets and piano trios.

no, they don't. at least anyone under 60.

 

[KeithR]

Thanks for that. Looking back - only 5 years - it was very much a different time and with a different set of choices made. Lot's of WE didn't hurt. I'm guessing ESD played classical at this year's show. I ask what happened between then and now? Given the brands that have come on the scene since 2019 is there really any progress? Is the high-end devolving?

ESD played Hugh Masekela and Kenny G at Axpona in the 15 minutes I sat down. I'm mean, seriously, Songbird!

 

[KeithR]

Exactly .

Fm acoustics plays real world music

Not like some other brands who play safe ping ping music .

ping ping music - I like that description for crap music that no one listens to at home

 

[mtemur]

I don't typically watch video ranters about audio but I played a few minutes of this and was struck by these words:

I think Tokyo Audio Show is much better in this regard. Bigger, better isolated rooms, better organized demonstrations, far less visitors and more importantly quieter and kinder people.

The main problem with Munich is time. It should be spread over one week or two.

 

[Cala]

no, they don't. at least anyone under 60.

My birthday is today. I’m not yet 60… Something might have gone south with me…

 

[Argonaut]

My birthday is today. I’m not yet 60… Something might have gone south with me…

Many Happy Returns Of The Day … I am lead to believe that there is a surgical procedure available for that , Milan told me ;0}

 

[morricab]

I have not seen a single defence of the Nagra Stenheim demo from an owner or a dealer. It was possibly a poor demo.

The only statements I have seen are Stenheims are excellent cones, I think so too, and this has nothing to do with the Munich demo. I first heard them in Munich in 2015 and 16 and have said on this forum they are good since then.

There is an excellent Stenheim U2 CH set up in London that is quite superior to many cone systems I have heard. I once took a London visitor Sujay there, and Sujay too has rated it highly on the forum. So do people with similar exposure make similar conclusions? Yes. The ones who listen to this London set up think it's excellent, while those who listen to the one in Nagra in Munich think it's not. However all these opinions are shared and agreed on by non-owners/non-dealers without any debate.


As to your question, "should I attend Munich 2025, and what for ?" - you should only to have fun and tick it as part of the hobby. Do not make sonic decisions or purchase reject decisions on the back of that. That is difficult as some people want to use any data point they have, no matter how invalid, to help in their shortlist. It gives them a sense of comfort they used a logical strikeout process.

It did sound quite a bit better on Sunday as well...

 

[morricab]

no, they don't. at least anyone under 60.

I am under 60... I think you are confusing age with sophistication...

 

[PeterA]

no, they don't. at least anyone under 60.

Keith, I've been listening to chamber music at home since my 40s and I pay to hear it live. I enjoy it and it can also be very revealing of system quality. There are a lot of good classical musicians around Boston. Of course, I was just in Dallas and enjoyed hearing Travis Tritt at Billy Bob's Honky Tonk in Forth Worth after the rodeo. My wife and I were up on the dance floor. Different music for different occasions, and much of it has to do with local culture.

 

[morricab]

ESD played Hugh Masekela and Kenny G at Axpona in the 15 minutes I sat down. I'm mean, seriously, Songbird!

What's wrong with Hugh Masekela (no comment on Kenny G...although he has a Latin flavored album that is good)? I saw him live in Zurich and it was an amazing show.

 

[Vicks7]

Was the Esoteric turntable being used in any of the rooms in Munich - did anyone hear it?

 

[Willgolf]

Going back to post #1047 the cartoon depicting the crowd vs Aries Cerat, is that really necessary? Is that really fair? Is that really factual? IMO, that is over the top in denigrating a brand. Sad commentary.

 

[morricab]

Going back to post #1047 the cartoon depicting the crowd vs Aries Cerat, is that really necessary? Is that really fair? Is that really factual? IMO, that is over the top in denigrating a brand. Sad commentary.

Agree and I think the moderators should look at that post in context of the TOS for this site and remove it.

 

[Elliot G.]

As someone that has a room at multiple shows and plays and picks the music the task as you guys are describing is impossible. We try to play a variety of music without taking specific requests as that is a rabbit hole that can not be gone down. If you are at a room at a show and ask for a certain type of music many rooms will try to accomodate you. I may not play exactly what you ask for but I try to play something similar. Shows are impossible to please everyone and remember what you may not like someone else loves. Jazz, no jazz, rock, no rock, chamber , no chamber , Orchestral, no orchestral. female vocals, no female vocals etc.
I can say that in my observations most people , well over 90 percent of the room visitors leave in under 30 seconds anyway. THose who stay stay for a cut or two and then a small percentage actually sit and listen for a while and most of them return multiple times.
As the "DJ" I try to read the room and play what I think people will enjoy without playing ever the same old six cuts,
Do I please everyone? LOL no but hopefully I please most of the visitors some of the time. Maybe a new Yogy ism LMAO ( only some will get this one)

 

[Al M.]

Going back to post #1047 the cartoon depicting the crowd vs Aries Cerat, is that really necessary? Is that really fair? Is that really factual? IMO, that is over the top in denigrating a brand. Sad commentary.

It was just a funny, ironic play on the unfortunately coalescing factions on this thread.

Chill out, don't take it too seriously.

Agree and I think the moderators should look at that post in context of the TOS for this site and remove it.

Disagree. Nothing to moderate here. Moderators should not feel obliged to micromanage anything that might threaten certain members in their sensitive emotions and 'safe spaces'.

I guess people were just laughing with the cartoon and moved on.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Another interesting product is the new Esoteric amp line.
For solid state it was very good

I think it was the M1X or something class AB monos.

Regarding Turntables best vinyl i heard was with the Kronos in the gershman room

But dollar for dollar why go for that .
For that money you can go tape machine / Tape ballistic

Kronos ..! Better than FMA ..?