Munich show 2023 Hifideluxe and MOC .

[bonzo75]

Did Murat own Tidal’s top of the line LA’s (I rule out the Tidal for Bugatti loudspeakers because I have not heard those yet)?

The only real way to find out is to set up the (horn) loudspeakers you suggested to me in my listening room with my audio equipment and with all my Tripoint Audio grounding features (and just to be sure: both my LA’s are grounded with (top of the line) Tripoint Audio grounding cables and the (top of the line) Tripoint’s elite NG (grounding) device. As far as I am aware I am the only person on this planet who is doing this while grounding the LA’s - and it is exactly the same with grounding the Wadax reference dac - makes a significant difference for the better because you getting rid off so much distortion). And such a set up at my place is very unlikely to happen while listening to these transducers with different equipment in a different room says only so much.

What if the horn system in the other room without any grounding sounds better than the your Tidal room with grounding (to you, not to me or anyone else). Is that case enough for you to then shift even without grounding (stage A), even if you think adding grounding will improve it further, and can be a later stage (stage B). Heck, you don't even have to shift, just say if you appreciate it more, or less. I am not trying to get anyone to spend, irrespective of where their current system is. I prefer recommending spending at restaurants to spending on hifi.

 

[bonzo75]

Did Murat own Tidal’s top of the line LA’s

That was in 2015 or 16.

 

[Audiocrack]

What if the horn system in the other room without any grounding sounds better than the your Tidal room with grounding (to you, not to me or anyone else). Is that case enough for you to then shift even without grounding (stage A), even if you think adding grounding will improve it further, and can be a later stage (stage B). Heck, you don't even have to shift, just say if you appreciate it more, or less. I am not trying to get anyone to spend, irrespective of where their current system is. I prefer recommending spending at restaurants to spending on hifi.

If that would happen you still have to take into account the differences in a. acoustics, b. equipment, c. power conditions and d. isolation features. But I agree then it would become interesting

 

[bonzo75]

If that would happen you still have to take into account the differences in a. acoustics, b. equipment, c. power conditions and d. isolation features. But I agree then it would become interesting

At least 3 of these 4 systems have minimum of that. So if you like them it will purely be because of the speaker amp source and simplicity of the signal path.

 

[PeterA]

And what happens to those that hear the horns and still dont agree??

Nothing at all. They go on to live another day. BTW, it is not just the horns. It is the whole system. The right horns are what allow you to fully experience a great SET amp like the ML2.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nothing at all. They go on to live another day. BTW, it is not just the horns. It is the whole system. Horns are what allow you to fully experience the ML2.

I guess it comes all down to preference
I learned from 2 Munchen shows and a whole lot of other dealer / audiophile visits that the only thing that i would really want to add is Wadax digital.
For the rest its all more of the same to me.
I can go into hibernation again for 10 years

 

[howiebrou]

Nothing at all. They go on to live another day. BTW, it is not just the horns. It is the whole system. The right horns are what allow you to fully experience a great SET amp like the ML2.

I’m also a horn convert if you can spot them.

 

[XV-1]

I’m also a horn convert if you can spot them.

View attachment 110512

LOL good one Howie

 

[howiebrou]

LOL good one Howie

You see them Shane?

 

[PeterA]

I’m also a horn convert if you can spot them.

View attachment 110512

One small step…

 

[matthias]

the only thing that i would really want to add is Wadax digital.

Sorry, but I can't disagree more.

I compared sound and musicality of the rooms with a Wadax front end to other rooms with TOTL digital sources and none of the Wadax rooms brought me as close to the emotions of music like some others.

For example I found the Taiko/Lampi Horizon combo in the Alsyvox room much more musically convincing than your favorite.

BTW, the Alsyvox room was the favorite one for me and my wife at this HE

Matt

 

[howiebrou]

One small step…

Actually they play bloody loud considering the horn is only 2 inches or so across!

 

[PeterA]

Actually they play bloody loud considering the horn is only 2 inches or so across!

I have read about them. Perhaps Bonzo will visit, record LZ II on his phone and share on WBF.

 

[XV-1]

You see them Shane?

Yes, I will get out my lasso

And of course those little musical horns in the back of the room

 

[howiebrou]

I have read about them. Perhaps Bonzo will visit, record LZ II on his phone and share on WBF.

Only people with a system are allowed past the front door!

 

[TVTI]

I didnt know they were closed saturday.
Day 4 sunday i was twice in the room.
They had the bugatti sector cordoned off.
They split the room in 2 with a rope
I found the tidal crew being very friendly.
Its also possible its partly a bugatti marketing decission .
Bugatti is off course a top notch luxury brand which knows how to maintain exclusivity for high rollers.

Kharma was another example this year .
All looks no sound

Unfortunately for many who tried to visit, TIDAL has a lot of International Distributors and Dealers that needed to be exposed to several new products. Many of them travelled thousands of miles, and many hours, to have time to talk with their vendor. Also there were several Press meetings. All of these meetings were scheduled in advance and lasted 30 to 60 minutes. There was a sign stating this at the door and they repeatedly asked people to come back in between the meetings. Thursday was Industry day yet the TIDAL team let people in to listen while their meeting was happening on the other side. Friday was the busiest with Saturday being second. The room was always open to attendees in between those meetings. This image shows what the room looked like in between. If you look closely, you’ll see the humble Mr. Janczak not hiding or being unavailable but sitting amongst those who came in.

 

[morricab]

My final show preference...top 10 rooms:

1) Aries Cerat. Most realism in a system of still "fit in your home" size.
2) Acapella but you needed to sit in the first couple of rows...further back was far less appealing
3) Cessaro with Opus 1 + subwoofer: However, the big system was not very good...no idea what the issue is.
4) TotalDAC. Maybe some rooms sounded better in some ways but the sound was clean, fresh, well balanced and dynamic. Good value by show standards
5) WE room with Silbatone. Not quite as good as some past years and somewhat uneven but unrivaled dynamics and emotion
6) Sigma Acoustics with CanEver eletronics and a big TT. Really lovely and dynamic sound...best system with no horn driver of any kind
7) Grandinote. This was the best under 50K system at the show IMO. 98dB speakers with compression/horn tweeter and Magnetosoild amps
8) Living Voice. Very good sound but perhaps not great value for the speakers (52K). I think the system could have benefited from having more than 8 watts of 300B power on tap as you could hear the strain when it got loud.
9) Diptyque. Best sounding panels at the show, IMO. More coherent, tonally balanced than others. Being in a smaller room probably helped in this case. Was very good last year as well.
10) Kawero! + Ypsilon. Most dynamic non-horn system. Last year had too much zing in the tweeter but this year it was yummy.

Honorable mention:

Von Schweikert/VAC. Very dynamic for a non-horn system and extremely resolving. However, was not very forgiving of lesser recordings
ESD Acoustics: Bombastic in the same way a Buggatti Veyron is for cars. Loved the ambition and scale but for anything other than big classical it sounded overblown.
Tidal: Didn't hear the Buggatti model but their other bigger model was quite warm and natural sounding even with SS amps
Voxativ: Often I don't like the highs of whizzer coned drivers but they had a new black coned driver that sounded very good with midbass coupler and dipole sub...
Fleetwood Sound: Lively and fun but a bit raw sounding at times
Diesis Audio: in a much bigger room this year and it didn't really work as well as the past few shows. Still lovely sound but lacked some impact this time
Soundspacesystems: Funky, high sensitivity speakers that were a lot of fun...but way overpriced IMO.
Odeon + New Audio Frontiers: Was great when they picked good music...which wasn't that often.
Jadis + Davis Acoustics. Prototype speaker was good fun and lively...Jadis has lovely voicing.
Thrax: Great sounding monitors and all 300B preamp/amp chain.
WLM: Small two-way speakers were a real surprise for reasonable money
Marco Serri design: Crazy stuff with an appealing an lively sound...perhaps not completely worked out designs but a lot of fun.


Almost but not quite:
Boenicke Audio: Had it's moments but overall seemed a bit uneven
Marten: All rooms. Speakers had strong bass in both rooms and overly soft upper ranges.
Wilson/Nagra: Had considerable strengths but just doesn't sound realistic
Wilson/VTL: same as above
WE with new (as of last year) speaker
Avantgarde.Duo GT..something about them with SS amps just leaves me cold.
hORNs: Didn't really gel for me
Goebel + CH + WADAX/Kronos: With Kronos it would almost have made the honorable mention list but I think CH holds it back. With WADAX, no thanks. The whole system was significantly better last year with True Life Audio amplification, IMO
MBL: Always a "not quite" for me because of the metallic nature of the overall sound I always hear...strengths are clear but i guess not everyone hears the weaknesses.
Bayz: Could hear the "pipe" overlaying the sound...otherwise nice boxless sound.
Stenheim + Dartzeel... a bit "meh" but basically ok
Rockport + Absolare: not sure what the fuss is about...ok hifi sound.
Brodmann + Viola and crazy Zensati cables; Interesting and almost made honorable mention

Fails:
Wilson + CH...ummm...bad
Kharma room....ummm....really bad
Kharma + Robert Koda + Wadax (?)....umm...really really bad
Wolf Von Langa + Air Tight: Very thin sounding
Clarisys + Soulution (would like to hear them with something less analytical) very cold and analytical sounding
Alsyvox + Pilium: (last year lacked dynamics with Jadis and this year lacked soul and coherence with Pilium). Liked their sound a lot in 2018 and 2019 but not since they came with the big speakers at the big show. This is perhaps not quite a fail but after great demos in the past the last two years have been a big letdown.


Lot's of other rooms that left no impression on me at all.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Nice looking speakers those Bugatti/ Tidals.
I guess those are bugatti curves.

Okay as a mechanical guy one has to admire Techdas .
Stunning Pieces of enginering

 

[matthias]

Diptyque. Best sounding panels at the show, IMO. More coherent, tonally balanced than others. Being in a smaller room probably helped in this case. Was very good last year as well.

They didn't convince me last year and the same this year. Offering great resolution they did't offer the power and body of real music so the presentation was rather artificial to me, not my cup of tea.

Matt

 

[matthias]

Wilson + CH...ummm...bad
Kharma room....ummm....really bad
Kharma + Robert Koda + Wadax (?)....umm...really really bad
Clarisys + Soulution (would like to hear them with something less analytical) very cold and analytical sounding

Agree regarding these four.

Matt