My CH Precision/Magico System

LL21

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There are a couple SS amp brands that have interesting tonal density but the overall effect is a “dark” sound that also then doesn’t sound real (thinking BAT and Vitus), IMO.

I am not anti-transistor per se. I had and still like KR Audio, which are hybrids (input and driver are SS), also their hybrid pre is good. I also had pretty good sound from a NAT Symbiosis SE, which was single ended hybrid where the output was a single huge MOSFET (input and driver were tube). Ultimately it was beaten by good SET.

Gryphon does not have it, IMO (have not heard latest models) FM Acoustics definitely does not...again IMO. The Robert Koda hybrid might have it but I haven’t heard it. CAT doesn’t have it either IMO. Interestingly, the Jadis Defy 7 mkiii with Siltech wiring had very good tone on FOCAL speakers even...interesting amp...especially for PP.
Thanks! Always interested in hearing from audiophiles who are very experienced, and have a lot of professional experience as musicians which is something I know you have mentioned in the past. I have candidly struggled with SS myself, having kept the Zanden for many years, and only recently moved from CJ to Robert Koda on the preamp. I think the Gryphon has a lot of great qualities in terms of image density and tremendous foundation which is part of live music. As for perfect tonal density and quality, that is something where I do wonder about the Robert Koda K160 mono amps which Amadeus recently acquired.

In any event, back to our regularly scheduled program of CH...
 
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KeithR

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That's what I believed and was doing for many years. Now with excellent results using SS DAC or SS preamp to a CAT JL7 SE tube amp, both ways work. Also with tube amps, one experiences more tube flavor than a tube preamp.
I concur- tube amp is where the magic is. Also much easier to match SS pre to tube amp than vice versa. That said if your speakers are inefficient than you have no choice.
 

bonzo75

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That's what I believed and was doing for many years. Now with excellent results using SS DAC or SS preamp to a CAT JL7 SE tube amp, both ways work. Also with tube amps, one experiences more tube flavor than a tube preamp.

That is the best way. Your Soulution will do the SS into valve power amp brilliantly. SS amps are required only if tube amps cannot drive them
 
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tima

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Yes, our systems are vastly different, as are our rooms. I find I have to 'acclimate' when I first start to listen to someone else's system as the differences are initially distracting.

Yes, the 'slats' on the double door are acoustical treatment (ASC Soundplanks). They make a subtle difference - for better or worse. I don't think they're ideal; while I certainly don't enjoy reflected sound off glass, I suspect they absorb more frequencies than I'd like... They come on and off easily and are not there all the time as they block light into the kitchen... ;)

The treatments behind the listening seats is to tame the bass reflections. Barely visible in the one photo of the listening chairs is a chair behind my main chair. I often go and sit there as the presentation there is superior in some ways (I'll spare you the nitty gritty details of my room challenges) and because that puts my ears close to the walls (none of which are parallel and create havoc) the treatments help in calming down the reflections.

Yes, I adore full orchestral music, especially early 20th century (or late 19th). Some of my favorites:
Stravinsky (the usual culprits plus some of the other not-as-popular ones)
Shostakovich (the 5th never ceases to amaze me)
Debussy
Ravel
Bartok (Concerto for Orchestra,
Mahler (I like the 2nd and 4th a lot; still exposing myself to more)
Bruckner (9th)
Tchaikovsky (his Violin Concerto is my favorite but I like a lot of his compositions)
Holst
Some lesser known American composers such as Hanson, Kennan, Fine etc.

That said, I very much appreciate earlier classical as well - especially chamber music. I listen to Bach with my morning coffee every day without fail.

Ian, thanks for taking the time to write your detailed reply.

I am tickled to find your musical choices align very much with my own - late 19th through mid-20th century - from Tchaikovsky through Bartok. You may like Samuel Barber and Aaron Copland too. Shosty is an endless source of interest, I'm trying to build up my collection. You might like the Mahler thread referenced in my signature. If you don't already have it, I'll reccommend Stravinsky's Dumbarton Oaks (L'Oiseau-Lyre - SOL 60050)

Stravinsky - Dumbarton Oaks.jpg
 
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Gregm

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TBH, I actually find the CATs to be a bit leaner tonally than the real thing as well...
This is interesting. I had the impression of ”leaner than real” — but i attributed it to my speakers rather than the CAT pre!
 

morricab

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This is interesting. I had the impression of ”leaner than real” — but i attributed it to my speakers rather than the CAT pre!
What speakers? Could have been a combination but, yes, that is what I concluded from lots of listening.
 

MadFloyd

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Tang sold all of his SAT's (he had 3) for the 3012R, not sure it would be much of an upgrade. And just think, that's $30K of records you can buy....
Interesting... I have a friend who went from the 3012R to the SAT and was shocked at how much of an improvement it was. Because of the affinity towards the 3012R on this forum he wasn't expecting to be blown away or actually keep the SAT but he tells me that the reviews (Fremer, Myles Astor) are spot on. Is Tang the only person you know of who didn't like the SAT?
 

MadFloyd

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Ian, thanks for taking the time to write your detailed reply.

I am tickled to find your musical choices align very much with my own - late 19th through mid-20th century - from Tchaikovsky through Bartok. You may like Samuel Barber and Aaron Copland too. Shosty is an endless source of interest, I'm trying to build up my collection. You might like the Mahler thread referenced in my signature. If you don't already have it, I'll reccommend Stravinsky's Dumbarton Oaks (L'Oiseau-Lyre - SOL 60050)

View attachment 79315

Thanks, Tim. I did spend some time reading your Mahler thread yesterday which I enjoyed... I ended up digging out my copy of Solti's 1st and enjoyed that as well. :)

I am not familiar with Dumbarton Oaks so I very much appreciate the recommendation - which I will definitely pursue!
 

Gardener

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Interesting... I have a friend who went from the 3012R to the SAT and was shocked at how much of an improvement it was. Because of the affinity towards the 3012R on this forum he wasn't expecting to be blown away or actually keep the SAT but he tells me that the reviews (Fremer, Myles Astor) are spot on. Is Tang the only person you know of who didn't like the SAT?
Ian
I have the Atlas Lambada on a SAT tonearm ( 1st generation ) sounds wonderful , also through Magico S7 speakers
Love your system , thanks for sharing
 
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jeff1225

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Interesting... I have a friend who went from the 3012R to the SAT and was shocked at how much of an improvement it was. Because of the affinity towards the 3012R on this forum he wasn't expecting to be blown away or actually keep the SAT but he tells me that the reviews (Fremer, Myles Astor) are spot on. Is Tang the only person you know of who didn't like the SAT?
I have a friend that has the SAT. It's not an improvement over the 3012R, it just sounds different. One might prefer the sound, one might not.
 

Lagonda

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I have a friend that has the SAT. It's not an improvement over the 3012R, it just sounds different. One might prefer the sound, one might not.
There is probably also great synergy between Tangs AS2000 and the 3012R Davids favorite arm. :)
 
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Lagonda

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Ian
I have the Atlas Lambada on a SAT tonearm ( 1st generation ) sounds wonderful , also through Magico S7 speakers
Love your system , thanks for sharing
Is the Atlas Lambada a special Brazilian version of the cartridge, made for playing latin music ? ;)
 

Al M.

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Ian, thanks for taking the time to write your detailed reply.

I am tickled to find your musical choices align very much with my own - late 19th through mid-20th century - from Tchaikovsky through Bartok. You may like Samuel Barber and Aaron Copland too. Shosty is an endless source of interest, I'm trying to build up my collection. You might like the Mahler thread referenced in my signature. If you don't already have it, I'll reccommend Stravinsky's Dumbarton Oaks (L'Oiseau-Lyre - SOL 60050)

View attachment 79315

The Dumbarton Oaks is great, quirky and very original (like most Stravinsky). I love this piece, the rhythms and colors. I have three recordings, with Boulez, Robert Craft and Stravinsky himself conducting. Interesting differences. The recording with Stravinsky conducting is wild and unpolished, and perhaps because of that sounds the most quirky of them all. You might be able to find it on vinyl as well.

Ian has introduced me to a lot of Stravinsky, and in turn I have introduced him to some too. We both have come to love the ballet Agon lately. It sounds great both as a large orchestra version (e.g., Michael Tilson Thomas, San Francisco Symphony) or a chamber orchestra version, e.g., with Robert Craft.
 
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Elliot G.

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Some more thoughts on CH Precision electronics (enthusiasm forthcoming!):

Besides the sound characteristics, the design and engineering of these products is something I've never experienced before. Aesthetically they are modest but very elegant. IMO they will 'fit' in any environment and look beautiful in person. One gets the feeling that much thought and brainstorming went into every aspect of the design.

Ergonomically they are a pleasure to use. The front panel controls and remote is very well thought out.

They do not require much warm up time and therefore do not need to be on 24/7. They sound respectable cold, great after 15 minutes and are at top performance after an hour.

I use the CH Precision mobile app (Android only unfortunately) to turn on and off the entire system with one tap. Of course the same app is used for a lot more, including every parameter that can be changed (which is also accessible from the front panel but the app is the preferred method).

The character of the sound does not seem to change with volume. I find this fascinates me and somewhat hard to describe. Obviously there are some changes with volume as the room starts to pressurize, woofers start moving more air etc. When you get up to realistic volume levels there is no lack of body and drive and it's quite impressive that increasing volume doesn't introduce electronic artifacts; my room will get in the way before the electronics do.

I have an audiophile acquaintance who has owned CH Precision components since they've been produced; he has owned CH long before most people knew of them. He's never had an issue with any of their components. I find that very reassuring.
I think you will find that if you get the temperature of the amps up in the upper 40's that is where they really sing. By the way I don't ever shut mine off and they are not space heaters.
 
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MadFloyd

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I think you will find that if you get the temperature of the amps up in the upper 40's that is where they really sing. By the way I don't ever shut mine off and they are not space heaters.
Thanks for chiming in, Elliot. Mine are at 46 at the moment. I'll have to monitor the temp vs sound next time.

I assume you leave your other CH gear on all the time as well?
 

MadFloyd

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Is the Atlas Lambada a special Brazilian version of the cartridge, made for playing latin music ? ;)
Yes. And that makes it very difficult when your turntable only has one arm and you want to listen to a different genre. :D
 
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Elliot G.

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Thanks for chiming in, Elliot. Mine are at 46 at the moment. I'll have to monitor the temp vs sound next time.

I assume you leave your other CH gear on all the time as well?
I only shut it off when there is a hurricane :) If you get it over 48 degrees I think you will see what I mean, I try to get mine to 50
 

MadFloyd

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I only shut it off when there is a hurricane :) If you get it over 48 degrees I think you will see what I mean, I try to get mine to 50
Hair dryer, perhaps? :D
 

MadFloyd

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Well, I was going to take my time sharing this next bit...

After falling in love with the M1.1s, I found myself feeling that GREED that (some?) of us audiophiles feel. It sounds GREAT! I SHOULD BE TOTALLY HAPPY! Wait, can it sound better? If I'm this happy now, how much happier would I be if, well, you know, it sounded EVEN BETTER?

I began to lust after the 10 series. I mean, what reasonably sane, happy CH owner wouldn't? What I had previously convinced myself to ignore (due to cost) began to fill my thoughts more and more. I turn 60 in the fall and thought to myself that if I could swing it, it would be a wonderful birthday present to myself. The scheming began.

To make a long story short, what was going to be a birthday present is now more like a crazy father's day present. On Friday I took delivery of this:
L10 powering up.jpg
That 'charging up' message is a surprise.


I elected to keep it out of the system and break it in for a while. Here it is attached to an old CD player...
L10 breaking in.jpg


I also didn't realize that the power umbilical design changed and that there's only one power cord required.
L10 rear.jpg

Today, after 42 hours I decided to put it in the system. I was fully mentally prepared to console myself that any sonic disappointment would simply require more break-in, but I was GOBSMACKED. The last track I was playing before swapping out the preamps was Steely Dan's Gaucho so I just played the same track. The difference is NOT subtle. I expected improvements but this is crazzzzzy. I writing this on my computer two rooms away and I can hear incredible bass texture on classic rock tracks, lol and this is just Roon doing it's 'radio' thing and STREAMING DIGITAL. This sounds so 'phat' and textured and it's not even vinyl. Holy tonal density!
 

Lagonda

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Very nice ! Congratulations Ian ! :)
 
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