My dedicated audio room build - QuadDiffusor's Big Dig

[QuadDiffuser]

I've got my eyes on MSB's upcoming Sentinel DAC, featuring 32 Hybrid DACs (16 per channel), compared to the Cascade DAC’s 8 Hybrid DACs (4 per channel).

Its design is evolving, recently haven gone through its 2nd round of prototyping and testing. Read about the Sentinel DAC's design updates on MSB's forum, here: https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/the-sentinel-dac-design-update-2/222

Attached below are a few preliminary visuals of the DAC chassis and its internal dual-clock module. Like the Cascade DAC, the Sentinal DAC will be a 3-chassis design, comprising of the DAC, Digital Director, and powerBase.

I wonder whether both of the other two chassis will only need to be 1/2 the height of the DAC's very large chassis, as the Sentinel Digital Director's DSP computing horsepower may only need to be equal to what's in the Cascade's? Ditto for the Sentinel powerBase if the more power density can be packed in with sufficient heat dissipation, and if the spare space in the DAC chassis can house some of the power supply components.

But then again, a full-height Sentinel DD will accommodate a double-sized display unit for even better legibility and more input modules, like this newly-developed HDMI card: https://forum.msbtechnology.com/t/new-hdmi-i2s-input-module/183

And a full-height Sentinel powerBase will no-doubt house even more transformers, rectifiers, capacitors, and even batteries (?!) to punch out utterly pristine and unconstrained DC.

1) Front-R view


2) Rear view. Note the double XLR outputs for each channel (in the four extreme corners) for connecting to the "Sentinel" edition of MSB's M500 amplifier, and the single power cable umbilical connector in the lower center.
3) close-up view of the dual-clock module, each clock suspended in its own "oven" and vibration-elimination isolation sub-assembly. For visual symmetry between the L and R halves, I'd suggest that MSB (mirror-image) "flip" the 22.5792 MHz bulge into the far R corner, so the two bulges are located in the corners.

 

[Silvano]

Your extreme project is highly promising, I expect something much above my listening experiences I have collected so far. I'm about to start with the construction of a quite similar dedicated listening room (L12xW6 and 4.3 meters as highest ceiling point) but made by bricks on side walls, solid wooden floor and wooden ceiling gable shaped. Of course acoustic measurements and treatments are mandatory to aspire to best results. It's a stand alone construction, around sixty meters far from my house in a quiet Tuscany countryiside place. I have big expectaction about the sound quality once this project wil be over.

Anyway my best compliments @QuadDiffuser!

 

[Silvano]

SPEAKER CHOICES

Revisiting my speaker audition list!
Lurkers - any others which I should be adding? ;-)

NEW/updated (listed alphabetically):
Magico M7
Marten (audition in Munich)
Rockport (Lyra - still unable to audition properly, grrr)
Von Schweikert Audio Ultra9 (mk2?) + pair of high-level input bass-management subwoofers
TAD Reference 1-TX
Vimberg/TIDAL (audition in Munich)
Vivid Moya 2 (trickle-down from the M1?)
Zellaton (audition in Munich)

OLD (from 2023-May):
Magico (upcoming M7/M8 incorporating trickle-down technologies from the M9)
Marten (audition pending)
Rockport (Lyra - audition pending)
Von Schweikert Audio (Ultra 7 or 9 + pair of high-level input bass-management subwoofers)
TAD (co-axial drivers, ie. Reference 1-TX)
Vimberg/TIDAL (auditions pending)
Vivid (upcoming flagship model, one slot above the Giya G1 Spirit)
Zellaton (audition pending)

I would consider the MAAT VECTOR XAC from Sigma Acoustics which I really consider one the best speakers ever all around the world, I have listened to them many times. According to my taste of course.

Technical data :

Sensitivity 100 db 8 ohm

Impedence 8 ohm minimum 5.2 at 300 hertz

Max power input 1000 watts

Frequency response 20-30000 hz / 20-100000 hz optional

High driver : Special new generation neodymium dipolar AMT Heil made from our specifications

Midrange high sensitivity papyrius fibres and Alnico Magnet

Double special woofer 15” on bass reflex system build on our specifications

Weight Kg. 340 each

Dimensions cm 80x64xh185

​

 

[Marcus]

I second Silvano’s suggestion.

Sigma Acoustics MAAT Vector XAC

Opening a dedicated Sigma Acoustics speakers thread because information about their flagship MAAT Vector XAC and other models is scattered through various threads. BTW, I'm quite familiar with Sigma Acoustics speakers. They attracted my attention at the 2022 Padova Hi-Fi Show (Orchestra 2.9)...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Thank you for the recommendation, Silvano and Markus! The Sigma Acoustics MAAT VECTOR XAC appears to beautifully amalgamate end-game components - crossovers, drivers and cabinets in a Darth-Vader like super-attractive finish.

However, I have never enjoyed speakers with a D'Appolito MTM driver configuration (nor line arrays), and I'm especially allergic to the high-frequency driver mounted above one's ears when seated, typically resulting in a ragged, non-optimal, and aggressive off-axis suck-out. I've auditioned Sigma Acoustics' top-of-the-line models in both Hong Kong and Singapore over the past 15 years, and have always felt that they were far too large for the room in which they were auditioned in, seemingly never being able to scale the instruments in the soundstage in its proper relative sizes complete with its boundary/edges (where appropirate) - from pin point, raindrop, tennis-ball mouth-sized, person-tall, double-bass voluminous, to cavernous.

My preference is for minimum baffle, minimum diffraction, point-source stacked dynamic driver designs, with the ability to scale and float solid images in realistic macro and micro dimensions inside an unconstrained holographic 3D soundstage.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Updates on MSB's Sentinel DAC from 12 days ago: it will be a 3-chassis design, with the DAC and powerBase modules having a full height of 9 inches, and the Digital Director being slimmer at just under 50% of the full height.

This means that I'll have to allocate/prepare appropriate rack space to accommodate all three chassis. Likely, the two larger chassis will be placed side-by-side closer to the ground, while the DD with the dot-matrix LED display will be higher up, closer to eye-level.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

SPEAKER CHOICES
updated 2024-Sep

(new) Dali Kore: I first saw a static display unit during Munich 2024, motivating me to dig deeper, and was extremely impressed by Dali's design, engineering, execution, explained in great detail inside their White Paper. https://cdn.brandfolder.io/T355Y1FY/at/c4nphnn2sszcnckhwsg58j/DALI_KORE_-_White_Paper.pdf
I was finally able to audition a pair at a local dealer in an extremely sub-optimal setup (jammed up against the front wall/sidewalls driven by mid-Fi components) but was extremely impressed nevertheless! I've created a new WBF thread on the Kore loudspeakers.

Dali Kore loudspeakers

Dali's flagship Kore loudspeakers have emerged as a potential choice for my upcoming dedicated listening room after I first saw them (static display versions) at Munich 2024, followed by a recent brief audition (click red link below)...

www.whatsbestforum.com

(new) Dali Epikore 11: at half the price, Kore's recently introduced trickle-down technology little brother; I like the distributed array bass driver design with the upper pair of bass drivers helping to mitigate floor-bounce artifacts. The cabinet's narrower baffle enables wider off-axis mid/hi frequency dispersion than the Kore, with overall performance which belies its size/price. Dali's White Paper on the the Epikore 11 is available here:

https://cdn.brandfolder.io/T355Y1FY/at/mxjqqbh8cw8js4tg2qktf7v/EPIKORE_11_White_Paper.pdf

Universally loved by reviewers, including this rave review:

(alternative) Linkwitz LX521.4 dipole loudspeaker w/active crossovers and amplifiers; loved the demo at Munich 2024, and a bargain for <US$30k

(wish list) Von Schweikert Audio Ultra 9 mk2 (perhaps available in 2026?); love their unique rear-ambient drivers and the GAIN crossover network, VSA/VSR have been my audiophile reference speakers for the past 25+ years.
Vivid Moya-2, a smaller brother to the flagship Moya-1?
Rockport Lyra, the forever elusive flagship; c'mon Rockport, where in the world can I audition a pair which is set up decently?

Speaker Choice (final)
updated 2024-Oct

I'm overjoyed to announce that the Von Schweikert Ultra 9 will be my choice of loudspeaker for my future basement listening room. Luck struck - I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity to own a pre-loved pair! These can easily be my "forever" speakers, but hey when the Ultra 9mk2 or Ultra 10 comes along in a few years, there will be an option to upgrade.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Speaker Choice
updated 2024-Oct

I'm overjoyed to announce that the Von Schweikert Ultra 9 will be my choice of loudspeaker for my future basement listening room. Luck struck - I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity to own a pre-loved pair! These can easily be my "forever" speakers, but hey when the Ultra 9mk2 or Ultra 10 comes along, they'll be an option to upgrade.

View attachment 138644

Big congratulations! This is a wonderful choice you will be supremely happy with!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Speaker Choice (final)
updated 2024-Oct

I'm overjoyed to announce that the Von Schweikert Ultra 9 will be my choice of loudspeaker for my future basement listening room. Luck struck - I'm very fortunate to have the opportunity to own a pre-loved pair! These can easily be my "forever" speakers, but hey when the Ultra 9mk2 or Ultra 10 comes along in a few years, there will be an option to upgrade.

congrats, great speaker. enjoy it every time i hear it at shows. owned the original VR9SE's back in the day too (and wrote a review in Positive Feedback Online about them).

 

[QuadDiffuser]

AC power duplex layout / positioning

I'm inclined to keep all AC power cords as short as possible, standardized at 1.75m (but possibly 2.0m, if the longer length proves to be most versatile). Since my dedicated audiophile sub-MCB box (located on the other side of the R wall) will have only six breakers inside, I need to think carefully about where to position the six Furtech duplex outlets, to optimize access for the components' various AC power cords.

Incorporating a few preliminary ideas, the baseline setup (see diagram below) will be "Plan A".

1) The two monoblock amplifiers (likely the MSB M500s or M500 Sentinels) will each have their own dedicated 20A duplex outlet, consuming two (out of the six) breakers

2) The Foundation (class D) amplifier in each Von Schweikert Ultra 9 loudspeaker will each have their own dedicated 20A duplex outlet, the pair consuming two (out of the four remaining) breakers.

3) The remaining two breakers will feed a pair of PS Audio AC power regenerators (either the P15 or P20) placed on the ground with the appropriate vibration reduction platforms on both the left and right sides of the HRS EXRD double-width component racks, providing power-corrected and voltage stabilized AC to the components inside the two HRS double-width racks.

4) The Von Schweikert Ultra 9's rear-facing sealed-cabinet subwoofers, for maximum smoothness in energizing the room with bass, I'd like to place them at the room length's quarter wavelength "null" point of 9,710mm/4 = 2,428mm. Adding the speaker's depth/length of 826mm results in the front of the speaker's baffle being positioned at 3,254mm from the front wall's structural surface.

5) I'd like to separate the loudspeakers by around 3,200mm, and with a gentle toe-in angle, the tweeters on the front baffle will be laterally separated by around 3,000mm.

6) The listening seat will be located at a distance (relative to the tweeters) of around 110% to 120%, implying a diagonal hypotenuse distance of between 3,300mm to 3,600mm.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

WBF members please chime in!
Questions on Plan A which I'd love to have answers to:

1) Instead of placing the DAC on the component rack, requiring 3.0m lengths of XLR interconnect cables to arch around in a semi-circle, and snaking around on the floor to reach the amplifiers, would it be better to place the DAC on the ground (with a Seismion active vibration platform, of course), centered and closer to the amplifiers? That way, I'll be able to use much shorter lengths of XLR interconnects. This can easily be done with either the MSB Cascade or the MSB Sentinel DACs, as their Digital Director units can be placed much further away, connected to the DAC chassis via their proprietary ProISL optical links.

2) Instead of connecting the Ultra 9 loudspeakers' two Class D amplifiers to two separate dedicated AC duplex outlets, should I plug both of them into a single PS Audio AC regenerator unit (either the P15 or the P20), placed in the center, between the two monoblock amplifiers? This will free up one AC duplex power outlet, which perhaps I can divert to the component rack located near the front wall.

Ugly as it may be, having the PS Audio Powerplant's rear panel face the listening position would be most optimal, as all of the many banks of duplex outlets will then be "facing" the speakers. In this configuration, both of the MSB Technology's DAC chassis and power supply chassis will be conveniently powered by the PS Audio regenerator, using much shorter AC power cables.

Additionally, an assortment of active vibration reduction platforms, isolation transformers (for galvanic AC isolation between the DAC and the Powerplant) can be powered this way.

 

[QuadDiffuser]

The alternative layout (incorporating the tweaks above) would therefore be
"Plan B".

Three dedicated 20A AC duplex outlets, located in the far left, center, and far right.
Sitting in the listening position, laid out on the ground in a broad arc, the following seven (7) components will be visible in the foreground:

1) VSA Ultra 9 loudspeaker, left channel (powered by the PS Audio Powerplant)
2) MSB M500 monoblock amp, left channel (powered by its own dedicated 20A AC duplex outlet)
3) stack of MSB DAC chassis, and its power supply chassis, centered (powered by the PS Audio Powerplant)
4) PS Audio Powerplant, centered behind the MSB components (powered by its own dedicated 20A AC duplex outlet)
5) MSB M500 monoblock amp (powered by its own dedicated 20A AC duplex outlet)
6) VSA Ultra 9 loudspeaker, right channel (powered by the PS Audio Powerplant)

 

[MarkusBarkus]

QD: what about soliciting a comment from Damon et al re: the 9s on the PSAs? Although I expect the Gullmans would say keep the 500s right to the wall.

I understand facing the back of the PSAs outward for better pc pathway. The whole power set-up is a real PITA. My TT7 plugs from the top. Ugh, what a pain.

I am still tweaking my much smaller (than yours) set-up due to the arrival of four new WestminsterLab amps. I wish I had a lot more space to neatly dress cables. I ordered 1.5m Masterbuilt pcs for the amps, had almost had a stroke when they arrived and were a bit short. I had to move the amp/stands back a bit to make it work. I considered 1.5s on one side and 2m on the other, but that doesn't feel right, even though VSA said it's fine.

Currently, I have the MSB Ref and DD, and the WL Quest pre into a TT7 power conditioner; the WL amps are "all" into a different dedicated line w/two duplex outlets.

I am seriously considering those new VSA 30s debuting at CapFest, so the need for more outlets/lines to power their subs is on my mind.

That said, I think I like the look-and-feel of plan "A" as described. I may end up putting the new Olympus on the floor, front and center when it arrives. I had the Extreme there, but moved it to the rear. That is also on the TT7.

Reading your post has me thinking the best path (for me) may be running a third dedicated line and re-sorting power. It is challenging to get it "just right" as an electrical best practice AND a pleasing look.

I am not 100% sorted, but some pics as reference, FWIW.

PS: I dislike the pcs draped up/over and the SACD player in the stand w/the network gear, but...

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Markus, thank you for sharing the layout photo of your beautiful system - a picture is worth a thousand words. The two power cords draped over the SACD player resemble gas station pump hoses. High octane fuel for your components, LOL! I've always been a fan of Von Schweikert designs, and believe that the VR30s are going to be taking away significant market share from its rivals for similarly priced products. Consistently smooth and predictable off-axis (both horizontal and vertical) polar frequency response, and adjustability/customization of both the bass through active amplification and the rear ambient driver/s are the keys to achieving a well-balanced and realistically holographic soundstage. Once heard, there's no going backwards to more conventional designs!

Since neither the Taiko Extreme nor the Olympus music servers have display screens which for legibility purposes require a nearby front-center placement, I suggest placing the music server where its electrical digital cable (existing USB /future XDMI) connection to the MSB Digital Director is shortest and thus most optimal. Placement constraints can be removed through a Taiko's soon-to-be released ProISL optical connection adapter, but even then, won't the music server still be confined to the proximity of the AC power source due to the very high cost of "audiophile" AC power cords?

 

[Synaxis]

QD: what about soliciting a comment from Damon et al re: the 9s on the PSAs? Although I expect the Gullmans would say keep the 500s right to the wall.

I understand facing the back of the PSAs outward for better pc pathway. The whole power set-up is a real PITA. My TT7 plugs from the top. Ugh, what a pain.

I am still tweaking my much smaller (than yours) set-up due to the arrival of four new WestminsterLab amps. I wish I had a lot more space to neatly dress cables. I ordered 1.5m Masterbuilt pcs for the amps, had almost had a stroke when they arrived and were a bit short. I had to move the amp/stands back a bit to make it work. I considered 1.5s on one side and 2m on the other, but that doesn't feel right, even though VSA said it's fine.

Currently, I have the MSB Ref and DD, and the WL Quest pre into a TT7 power conditioner; the WL amps are "all" into a different dedicated line w/two duplex outlets.

I am seriously considering those new VSA 30s debuting at CapFest, so the need for more outlets/lines to power their subs is on my mind.

That said, I think I like the look-and-feel of plan "A" as described. I may end up putting the new Olympus on the floor, front and center when it arrives. I had the Extreme there, but moved it to the rear. That is also on the TT7.

Reading your post has me thinking the best path (for me) may be running a third dedicated line and re-sorting power. It is challenging to get it "just right" as an electrical best practice AND a pleasing look.

I am not 100% sorted, but some pics as reference, FWIW.

PS: I dislike the pcs draped up/over and the SACD player in the stand w/the network gear, but...

Beautiful set up, Markus!

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...thank you. A smaller version of some of gems we see here, but it sounds pretty good. I will be considering the new VSA speaker over the existing Magico A5s. Not that the 5s don't sound good...they do.

 

[Sampajanna]

Congrats onthe speakers! Those are epic indeed. Your space is going to be amazing!

 

[Holli82]

Welcome Home!

 

[luca.pelliccioli]

Hi QuadDiffuser and congrats for your remarkable project, I’m following this thread full of envy!

I have 5 dedicated lines with Furtech sockets in my room but single Schuko, not double receptacles.

My room is far smaller than yours, so I opted for separated racks, a lower one on the front wall and a higher one on the side wall.

A few considerations:
- I was told by MSB staff (see MSB Forum) that DAC powerbase and MSB amps require the same current circuit and the best quality mains possible, while they recommend keeping the Digital Director even on a separate circuit as much isolated as possible (with server/streamer/switch)
- I know you have a really large space available but I consider the front wall the most crucial one, acoustically speaking. Less is more there. How hight will be the rack you are going to place there?
- I had P15 and P20 for years, then Puritan 156 and recently Gryphon PowerZone P3. General consensus is always to keep separation between analog and digital, as you know. Let me add that a future proof wall sockets scheme must also be implemented with at least one spare line/socket close to your conditioners. Why? You might need to plug a “ground” device in their proximity (think how many brands on the market) that requires a single socket available to clean/connect the ground path. Secondly you might need one for new audiophile “inventions” acting directly on the mains to clean it from noise/interferences/DC pollution (where the P20 fails in my opinion) and so on. Just to cite one: Schnerzinger Grid Protector (you can find a dedicated thread here on WTB).

Good luck for your gorgeous project.

Food for thought…

 

[QuadDiffuser]

Dear Luca,
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement and support!

- I was told by MSB staff (see MSB Forum) that DAC powerbase and MSB amps require the same current circuit and the best quality mains possible, while they recommend keeping the Digital Director even on a separate circuit as much isolated as possible (with server/streamer/switch)

The MSB M500/Sentinel 500 monoblock amplifiers will indeed have their own dedicated 20A duplex outlet (seen in the room diagram). For "Plan B", I was wondering whether both of the VSA Ultra 9's AC class D power amps' needs can be met with a single PS Audio P15/P20 placed in the center. The MSB DD will likely be placed on a component rack, fed first with AC power from a PS Audio P15/20, then through an isolation transformer (such as the PLiXiR Elite BAC 400 mkII)

Elite BAC 400 MK II – Plixir Power

www.plixirpower.com

- I know you have a really large space but I consider the front wall the most crucial one, acoustically speaking. Less is more there. How high will be the rack you are going to place there?

I concur, the front wall will be a very important for the broadband quadratic diffusers to do their job in de-correlating/randomizing music radiated from the rear hemisphere of the front channel loudspeakers. As you can see from the Avatar photo of my current system in my apartment, my future basement system will also have front wall obstructions to the absolute minimum, with the audio rack and components having a very low height profile.

General consensus is always to keep separation between analog and digital, as you know.

As the PS Audio P15/P20s located near the component racks will need to power both digital and analog components, each component will have its own dedicated isolation transformer which will provide bi-directional ultra-low noise in the grounding conductor as well as galvanic isolation from RFI/EMI pollution in the live/neutral conductors.

- It's important to include a future-proof wall socket scheme in your setup, ensuring at least one spare line/socket is available near your conditioners. This is crucial for plugging in devices that require grounding, given the variety of brands available that need a dedicated socket to clean or connect the ground path. Additionally, you may require a socket for innovative audiophile devices designed to purify the mains electricity from noise, interferences, and DC pollution, areas where solutions like the P20 may fall short. An example of such a device is the Schnerzinger Grid Protector, which is discussed in a dedicated thread on WTB.

Until advised otherwise, my baseline design goal for now is to have super-low impedance ground conductor from each of the AC duplexes back to the sub-MCB breaker box's copper bus bar in a "star grounding" configuration. Effectively, one/single ground for the entire audio system, located at the bus bar of the sub-MCB breaker box, which in turn is grounded to the utility main's bus bar (via copper rods buried deeply in wet soil).

The utility company will be providing 200A of 3-phase 240V 50Hz electricity to my doorstep. From the main breaker box inside the house, I'll be tapping a single 63A branch and delivering it down to the basement's dedicated audio sub-MCB breaker box, similar to the light bulb icon's branch of L2 (yellow) + N.

The other two branches will be used for 1) general household appliances, and 2) high power appliances like air conditioning condensers and water heaters. Hopefully, these high power appliances will not require a three-phase feed which could potentially pollute the dedicated audio feed!



To ensure that there will be no inter-duplex outlet ground loops, I'll be using identical-length ground conductors (10mm2 gauge, having exactly the same impedance/resistance by being exactly the same length of say 7.00m) between the AC duplexes spread throughout the room in a fan configuration (see diagram in posting #150), back to the dedicated sub-MCB breaker box.

For the AC duplexes located furthest away, the ground conductor cable will not have much slack. For the AC duplexes located closer, there will be slack in the ground conductor cables - the excess will be coiled loosely below the dedicated sub-MCB breaker box.

I'd love to hear advice and recommendations from you and other WBF members regarding the AC power delivery schematic above! Am I following "best practices", and on the right path to achieving the best possible power delivery and noise isolation?