My Tube Collection, Welcome to share yours

[Walter66]

For example, U.S. made small signal tubes from the 1950s and 1960s like 12ax7, 12au7, 12at7, 6dj8/6992, 6SN7, 6sl7, etc where made in the millions by companies like RCA, Sylvania, Tung Sol, Raytheon and GE. These are often overlooked by tube rollers who are more interested in European tubes by famous companies like Mullard, Telefunken, Amperex, Brimar, Siemens, GEC, and Phillips. The American tubes are in most cases competitive and a big step over most current production.

A short search from europe on the international auction platform shows, that a decent NOS pair of 12AX7 is minimum of $100 (including postage to europe) and it easily goes up from there to several hundreds. I don't see this as a cheap option, because in a minimal preamp, there are some other tubes employd. And that means, the whole NOS tube set will cost maybe $200 or more. This price will have to pay for the gear itself, many people do buy audio gear that isn't much more expensive. For those people, it simply isn't a good fit to advise to buy those NOS tubes.

Yes, there have been produced millions of electron tubes, but the stock that has been survived until today, some decades later, is just minimal.
And there is a legion of audiofools after those legendary famous tubes, thats why they skyroked in prices.

Many of the ordinary tube guys were leaving this treasure hunt, because its often risky, too. When purchasing for a price of $100, I would expect to receive a real NOS tube, measured and from a person, which is trustworthy. But try to find those tubes, its not that easy. The data they will give for the tubes parameters are often fake, and with every new tube measurement gear they differ a lot.

Sellers just want to hide that a NOS tube sometimes isn't that NOS as they will advertise them. Because they will sell used tubes for a higher value as NOS tubes. Thats the game they play today.

From the term itself, this tube should have never been used. But sellers see it a little different, they think that even a used tube with NOS values or what they think are NOS values, is new old stock, even when its been a used one. And what a NOS tube data for a given tube is, that could be everything in the range of "still usable" to "like new".

Thats why many are having taken a step back and went from NOS tubes to new production. Its cheaper, its a reliable purchase, you will get warranty and you know, that tube has been tested and isn't a used one. If not satisfied, you can return it.

The sleeper tubes are most often types with different ratings, different amplifications, different heater voltage, anything can be a little different.
Those tubes simply won't fit the original gear and so they are still being available in quantity, nobody wants them and they are cheap. This stuff is only for the DIY designers, not for the people who purchase plug and play tube gear.

 

[Mendel]

A short search from europe on the international auction platform shows, that a decent NOS pair of 12AX7 is minimum of $100 (including postage to europe) and it easily goes up from there to several hundreds. I don't see this as a cheap option, because in a minimal preamp, there are some other tubes employd. And that means, the whole NOS tube set will cost maybe $200 or more. This price will have to pay for the gear itself, many people do buy audio gear that isn't much more expensive. For those people, it simply isn't a good fit to advise to buy those NOS tubes.

Yes, there have been produced millions of electron tubes, but the stock that has been survived until today, some decades later, is just minimal.
And there is a legion of audiofools after those legendary famous tubes, thats why they skyroked in prices.

Many of the ordinary tube guys were leaving this treasure hunt, because its often risky, too. When purchasing for a price of $100, I would expect to receive a real NOS tube, measured and from a person, which is trustworthy. But try to find those tubes, its not that easy. The data they will give for the tubes parameters are often fake, and with every new tube measurement gear they differ a lot.

Sellers just want to hide that a NOS tube sometimes isn't that NOS as they will advertise them. Because they will sell used tubes for a higher value as NOS tubes. Thats the game they play today.

From the term itself, this tube should have never been used. But sellers see it a little different, they think that even a used tube with NOS values or what they think are NOS values, is new old stock, even when its been a used one. And what a NOS tube data for a given tube is, that could be everything in the range of "still usable" to "like new".

Thats why many are having taken a step back and went from NOS tubes to new production. Its cheaper, its a reliable purchase, you will get warranty and you know, that tube has been tested and isn't a used one. If not satisfied, you can return it.

The sleeper tubes are most often types with different ratings, different amplifications, different heater voltage, anything can be a little different.
Those tubes simply won't fit the original gear and so they are still being available in quantity, nobody wants them and they are cheap. This stuff is only for the DIY designers, not for the people who purchase plug and play tube gear.

New production 12ax7s start at $50 a pair and go up from there, with many “premium” models costing as much or more than NOS. My experience is that quality is usually lower than NOS alternatives and so is longevity. Few of the cheaper alternatives come with guarantees.
Most new tube gear is more than expensive enough to justify the use of good quality tubes. Yes there are cheaper vintage pieces that may not justify the expense of a tube upgrade financially, but even these pieces can benefit from tube rolling. Totally disagree about your comment on only minimal vintage tube stock surviving, you just have to know where to look to find them.
This is a good point to discuss “NOS” tubes. Personally I dont like the term and prefer the term “vintage”. Except in very rare cases, I believe NOS (new old stock) tubes are basically extinct. If you really believe that 12ax7 from the 1950s was never used in the last 70 years, well good Luck with that. I highly doubt it is true. So spending big bucks on “NOS” tubes is not the best idea financially. That said, there is nothing wrong with used, test new, vintage small signal tubes, with the accompanying lower asking prices. Quality 12a-7s and 6S-7s can last many thousands of hours (Telefunken tubes were rated for up to 10000 hours!). My experience with Chinese 12ax7s is a tube life of 1000 hours or less, and often mismatched triodes.
Chasing vintage tubes does require effort and is not without risk. You either need to deal with a dealer you can trust (be prepared to pay for that for it will cost you), or be a little more hands on (learning about vintage tubes, hunting down leads, getting a tube tester, etc). It is just like any other hobby, the rewards are there if you put in the time. And if you don’t want to do it, nothing wrong with current production tubes. But if you want What’s Best, high quality vintage tubes are a must.

 

[Walter66]

I prefer vintage tubes, too. But my gear is all about vintage, mixing the vintage with the new parts. I simply try to do the best whats possible.

Vintage tubes have vintage sound. Modern tubes have a more modern sound. I truly would advise not to put a 1950s WE 300B into work with a new tube amp. Because the sound characteristic is different. The new amp fits better to new tubes, and the vintage ones will fit only in vintage amps. That has to be understood, because its not something that you can google.

It means, the old WE tubes had a quality for setting standards in musical energy, mostly in the middle of the freq. range. They were not champions in the top highs and neither in the deepest lows. But those are the criterias for modern amps, even for modern tube amps. And that is for other tube gear like preamps the same.

They are not build in the way that they can release most energy in the middle of the freq. response curve. They were designed differently, build with different parts than the ones used in the past. In the past, most tube gear sounded the best in the middle of the music, thats where it all happened. Try an old tube radio, try an old Mc Intosh, or any old tube gear.

The sound characteristic were almost the same. And those sound characteristic matches the tubes perfectly, even they had its qualities in the middle of music range. Today its much different, every amp manufacturer aims for 30Hz- 20 Khz of flat output signals. That leads to different transfer curves. Now, the people do hear the highest highs, the lowest depths more clearly. And for that, an old, ancient Western Electric tube wasn't made. Modern 300B tubes could do that often better. I heard shootouts between those tubes, and the original wasn't the best in this field. But it clearly was the best in the field of playing believable middle tones. Thats where the contestors failed.

So you have to be very clearly what you want in tone, because old electron tubes often emphasizes the middle range in the tone spectrum.
They glamourise it, an euphonic reproduction is the result. I like it, but most often, people, in a shootout, will prefer modern tubes against the old ones. I've even seen people to prefer modern pentodes against old triodes. Because they sound more modern, more wideband.

For the topic of the availability of tubes today, where do you search? Most sources of the pre- internet have closed, all stores where we bought tubes locally have closed due to the internet. So where do you go and find your big stash of old tubes now? Do you travel the country to purchase old tubes? Do you visit your trustfull dealer around the world to buy them? Do you buy from your local dealer?

I do know some trustfull dealers, but should I visit them, they are abroad the country, some hundred miles away? I can only buy from the internet today and thats the way most of us deal with this hobby. I have developed a seventh sense in fake tube offerings, but even that doesn't mean I always get lucky with a purchase.

You must be very clever to spot cheap electron tubes in like new condition, 50 years old. And it needs deep pockets combined with a high frustration tolerance. Its the exact same as collecting old records or any other old stuff. You will be in contact with many people, some will make a non favorable deal with you, some will robb you. And some of them, maybe not the majority, are trustfull people who sell good stuff.

 

[Mendel]

I prefer vintage tubes, too. But my gear is all about vintage, mixing the vintage with the new parts. I simply try to do the best whats possible.

Vintage tubes have vintage sound. Modern tubes have a more modern sound. I truly would advise not to put a 1950s WE 300B into work with a new tube amp. Because the sound characteristic is different. The new amp fits better to new tubes, and the vintage ones will fit only in vintage amps. That has to be understood, because its not something that you can google.

It means, the old WE tubes had a quality for setting standards in musical energy, mostly in the middle of the freq. range. They were not champions in the top highs and neither in the deepest lows. But those are the criterias for modern amps, even for modern tube amps. And that is for other tube gear like preamps the same.

They are not build in the way that they can release most energy in the middle of the freq. response curve. They were designed differently, build with different parts than the ones used in the past. In the past, most tube gear sounded the best in the middle of the music, thats where it all happened. Try an old tube radio, try an old Mc Intosh, or any old tube gear.

The sound characteristic were almost the same. And those sound characteristic matches the tubes perfectly, even they had its qualities in the middle of music range. Today its much different, every amp manufacturer aims for 30Hz- 20 Khz of flat output signals. That leads to different transfer curves. Now, the people do hear the highest highs, the lowest depths more clearly. And for that, an old, ancient Western Electric tube wasn't made. Modern 300B tubes could do that often better. I heard shootouts between those tubes, and the original wasn't the best in this field. But it clearly was the best in the field of playing believable middle tones. Thats where the contestors failed.

So you have to be very clearly what you want in tone, because old electron tubes often emphasizes the middle range in the tone spectrum.
They glamourise it, an euphonic reproduction is the result. I like it, but most often, people, in a shootout, will prefer modern tubes against the old ones. I've even seen people to prefer modern pentodes against old triodes. Because they sound more modern, more wideband.

For the topic of the availability of tubes today, where do you search? Most sources of the pre- internet have closed, all stores where we bought tubes locally have closed due to the internet. So where do you go and find your big stash of old tubes now? Do you travel the country to purchase old tubes? Do you visit your trustfull dealer around the world to buy them? Do you buy from your local dealer?

I do know some trustfull dealers, but should I visit them, they are abroad the country, some hundred miles away? I can only buy from the internet today and thats the way most of us deal with this hobby. I have developed a seventh sense in fake tube offerings, but even that doesn't mean I always get lucky with a purchase.

You must be very clever to spot cheap electron tubes in like new condition, 50 years old. And it needs deep pockets combined with a high frustration tolerance. Its the exact same as collecting old records or any other old stuff. You will be in contact with many people, some will make a non favorable deal with you, some will robb you. And some of them, maybe not the majority, are trustfull people who sell good stuff.

WOW! Walter66 are you serious?
Vintage tubes have a vintage sound? No top or bottom end extension? No good to use in modern amps? So wrong on so many levels. No wonder it’s not on Google.
As to where I have found my tubes, I think I was very specific about that so maybe reread my posts. And being ”very clever” regarding finding tubes in like new condition requires nothing more than a good tube tester, in my case a Stark 12-22 With that, even you could do it.

 

[adrian cheng]

My good partners

 

[Mendel]

My Stark 12-22. Stark had the Canadian license for Hickok tube testers.

 

[adrian cheng]

Two of the very best American made tube tester

 

[adrian cheng]

Very rare Tungsram EL84 earlier version

 

[Mendel]

Tung Sol 6SN7 “Mouse Ears”
Right, grey plate version, left the earlier rare black plate version

 

[adrian cheng]

Received yesterday, later version Tungsram EL84, round holes instead four slots

 

[cedreige]

Hello ,
my E88CC , CCa , E188CC collection .
Kind regards , Alexander .

 

[adrian cheng]

Hello ,
my E88CC , CCa , E188CC collection .
Kind regards , Alexander .

Thanks for sharing

 

[Mendel]

Hello ,
my E88CC , CCa , E188CC collection .
Kind regards , Alexander .

Wow, very nice stash!

 

[cedreige]

EL156
Kind regards , Alexander .

 

[cedreige]

.....and RE604

 

[Mendel]

Sylvania VT-231

 

[adrian cheng]

EL34 Monoblock made by Soundsale

 

[Walter66]

WOW! Walter66 are you serious?
Vintage tubes have a vintage sound? No top or bottom end extension? No good to use in modern amps? So wrong on so many levels. No wonder it’s not on Google.
As to where I have found my tubes, I think I was very specific about that so maybe reread my posts. And being ”very clever” regarding finding tubes in like new condition requires nothing more than a good tube tester, in my case a Stark 12-22 With that, even you could do it.

Think you are god and know everything from an objective perspective?

Your perspective is in the same way highly subjective as my is. And I made my experiences. Made it with NOS electron tubes, old and new.
But maybe you misunderstood my point and don't know the difference between the sound of an old WE amp, that delivers sound with a 300B.
It has its quality, but its not describable with adjectives that characterize modern amps like great bandwith, great resolution, great details or 20 Khz reproduction of tones. That wasn't the world and attributes that made the magic of old amps. Its hard to understand, but audio world has changed dramatic since then.

Btw, your tube tester don't help you in any way since purchasing tubes from internet (and thats the way most people do it these days), every seller presents different test data for the same tubes. Some sellers hide real test data, some say its only tested, some say nothing about the state of the tube. So you can only test after the purchase. And send then many of the NOS tubes back, because they aren't real NOS at all but you already paid for them. Good luck in applying for a full refund. I had my share on this topic with "near mint" records. Great experience, you can learn much about people when in this business.

 

[adrian cheng]

Half watt output using CV 181 tubes

 

[adrian cheng]

Now have 11 of these very rare Russian 6P14P DD getter