My way to the next Poweramp

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,444
2,411
480
Cologne, Germany
Since I left my hORNS Universum speaker, Koda Preamp, various tube amps set up, I am on the way to pair my current speakers, Wilson Audio Maxx3 with matching gear.

The first change was from Koda K10 Preamp to

- Grandinote Genesi.

I was happy with the sonic signature of the Koda, but possible Gain (only 6db) was very low and I missed a remote control. Both is given with the Genesi preamp. The Genesi is more open, less soft, more dynamic. I would say, the Genesi is more close to the trueth..., but with the Koda the reproduction was more close to the heart , to the emotion of the music itself.


So far I used the following amplifiers with some enjoyment:


— Boulder 1060

a lot of information, speaker control, huge staging, with Koda well balanced, with Genesi a littly dry and bright



— VTL S-400

a majestic powerfull music reproduction, a lot of energy in the lower end, but not the best control in the very deep end. Wide stage, a lot of energy in the voices, but lacking of contour and precision.



— Grandinote Demone

very fast, dynamic, energetic, vibrant. Due to the 60w constraint not so good at higher levels, basscontrol starts missing. a natural partner for the Genesi preamp


All 3 amps are in a similar pricerange. Remembering my Convergent Statement mono amps in comparison all 3 amps are a compromise in different areas of music reproduction.

Looking arround for good amps on offer, many of them were out, as the Genesi preamp only accepts full xlr connections.

I owned Krell 600e, so a Krell or an Agostino Amp were acceptable, but in Europe were no fair priced offers in the market. May be I have to wait for the next generation of Krell. with Dan back :)

But close to my home a

— Goldmund Telos 2500

offer gots my attraction, so I drove to the dealer. There were a lot of Spectral gear in the showroom as well, so we started talking about the Design similarities between Goldmund and Spectral. Bandwith rules aproach. It was than no surprise, that the Telos 2500 (on Magico) were performing a little bit like Spectral on stereoids..., In fact nothing was wrong, a near perfect reproduction. But I was not connecting to the music at all. A kind of boring neutral, I assume you understand, what I mean.

Than I spotted a Jeff Rowland amp in the showroom. As had for a long time the
Jeff Rowland Model 9 Ti/HC monos, I wanted to listen to the current best stereo, the


— Jeff Rowland model 825


To my surprise, I liked the 825 more, that the much more expensive Telos 2500.

The flow of music was back, I was able to understand the musicians and their way to play, I was connecting to the music and not longer focussed on the details of reproduction.

Finally I went home with a JRDG 825 in my car :)


And I have to say, that 825 is a perfect match for the MAXX3. I never heard them performing on this level. If I was volunteering in the last month, that MAXX3 likes a low to medium damping factor to sound vibrant and fast and not overcontrolled, they play now as fast and vital as never heard before with a damping factor over 1000. My learning curve with Wilson is continuing :)

The resolution, specially in the midrange, has increased. without becoming a lean performancer (as used to be with the 1060)

Listening to some well known tracks, the new level of basscontrol and extention to the lower frequencies became even more obvious. A very perfect match to the MAXX3 power demand.


Now I will have a look into the market, if a pair of 925 monos will become available for a fair price , seems to me like the narural next step. But may be the difference is not that big, as it seems, that 925 and 825 have the same output power, just in 2 chassis and one more PSU.

I will find out :)
 

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CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2011
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1,410
Hong Kong
A great report!
Thanks!
 

Lagonda

VIP/Donor
Feb 3, 2014
3,515
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1,255
Denmark
Interesting ! And a damned good looking amp for sure. Is Rowland still flirting
with class d, or is it a class A/B design ? You sure get around Jürgen.
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,444
2,411
480
Cologne, Germany
As written, I bought the 825 spontaneous , just because of the great performance.
Back home I started to inform myself about the 825. And found out "class D" . Originally I promised myself, that (after ICE, Hypex, pascal, devialet, belcanto) I never will buy a class D amp. But it seems, that Jeff has developed class D a big step further from his first ICE based trials.

I spoke to Jeff during the Munich fair, and he told me, that he is still doing class D. Staying in front of 525 I was thinking, he is talking about his entry level. As 625 stereo and 725 mono are Class A/B. No I learned, that the top models 825 and 925 are class D as well.

One of my friends is building amplifiers at his own and he is using the argument, that for example a "Sanken" is a good Transistor, but it only will sound good, if the Amp built around the Sanken is good as well. Same for him regarding class D. PSU and input boards are vital, a robust chassis a must. But many brands go the "cheap" way an use only the ICE, Pascal, Hypex recommended modules to built a complete amp. So they all sound similar and constrained.

Now the 825 remembers me on the best characteristics of the model 9 Ti/HC.
Jeff has a talent to voice amps, to built amps, that it can feel very natural.
And until last week, I never would believe, that this "fluent" reproduction of music is possible with Class D.

Fortunately my 825 was bought "used", so I do not have the pain of many hours burn in to get the best out of the transformers.

Now I am looking for 3 x Nordost Titanium Pulsar points to place the amp. Currently the alloy version makes a good job on the CMS Maxxum Amp stand. So I like to try the Titanium version as well (offers are welcome)
 
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CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2011
3,062
3,200
1,410
Hong Kong
As written, I bought the 825 spontaneous , just because of the great performance.
Back home I started to inform myself about the 825. And found out "class D" . Originally I promised myself, that (after ICE, Hypex, pascal, devialet, belcanto) I never will buy a class D amp. But it seems, that Jeff has developed class D a big step further from his first ICE based trials.

I spoke to Jeff during the Munich fair, and he told me, that he is still doing class D. Staying in front of 525 I was thinking, he is talking about his entry level. As 625 stereo and 725 mono are Class A/B. No I learned, that the top models 825 and 925 are class D as well.

One of my friends is building amplifiers at his own and he is using the argument, that for example a "Sanken" is a good Transistor, but it only will sound good, if the Amp built around the Sanken is good as well. Same for him regarding class D. PSU and input boards are vital, a robust chassis a must. But many brands go the "cheap" way an use only the ICE, Pascal, Hypex recommended modules to built a complete amp. So they all sound similar and constrained.

Now the 825 remembers me on the best characteristics of the model 9 Ti/HC.
Jeff has a talent to voice amps, to built amps, that it can feel very natural.
And until last week, I never would believe, that this "fluent" reproduction of music is possible with Class D.

Fortunately my 825 was bought "used", so I do not have the pain of many hours burn in to get the best out of the transformers.

Now I am looking for 3 x Nordost Titanium Pulsar points to place the amp. Currently the alloy version makes a good job on the CMS Maxxum Amp stand. So I like to try the Titanium version as well (offers are welcome)
Here is a review of 825 poweramp on a Hong Kong hifi magazine written by my friend Winson Ng :
http://www.jeffrowlandgroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/MODEL-825-REVIEW-AUDIOTECHNIQUE-385.pdf

Although it's in Chinese, there are many internal photos of 825.
It's very well-built!
2-chassis with 4 compartments!
Very good internal components and impeccable CNCed aluminum alloy chassis.
 

Addicted to hifi

VIP/Donor
Sep 8, 2020
4,610
2,039
265
52
Australia
Since I left my hORNS Universum speaker, Koda Preamp, various tube amps set up, I am on the way to pair my current speakers, Wilson Audio Maxx3 with matching gear.

The first change was from Koda K10 Preamp to

- Grandinote Genesi.

I was happy with the sonic signature of the Koda, but possible Gain (only 6db) was very low and I missed a remote control. Both is given with the Genesi preamp. The Genesi is more open, less soft, more dynamic. I would say, the Genesi is more close to the trueth..., but with the Koda the reproduction was more close to the heart , to the emotion of the music itself.


So far I used the following amplifiers with some enjoyment:


— Boulder 1060

a lot of information, speaker control, huge staging, with Koda well balanced, with Genesi a littly dry and bright



— VTL S-400

a majestic powerfull music reproduction, a lot of energy in the lower end, but not the best control in the very deep end. Wide stage, a lot of energy in the voices, but lacking of contour and precision.



— Grandinote Demone

very fast, dynamic, energetic, vibrant. Due to the 60w constraint not so good at higher levels, basscontrol starts missing. a natural partner for the Genesi preamp


All 3 amps are in a similar pricerange. Remembering my Convergent Statement mono amps in comparison all 3 amps are a compromise in different areas of music reproduction.

Looking arround for good amps on offer, many of them were out, as the Genesi preamp only accepts full xlr connections.

I owned Krell 600e, so a Krell or an Agostino Amp were acceptable, but in Europe were no fair priced offers in the market. May be I have to wait for the next generation of Krell. with Dan back :)

But close to my home a

— Goldmund Telos 2500

offer gots my attraction, so I drove to the dealer. There were a lot of Spectral gear in the showroom as well, so we started talking about the Design similarities between Goldmund and Spectral. Bandwith rules aproach. It was than no surprise, that the Telos 2500 (on Magico) were performing a little bit like Spectral on stereoids..., In fact nothing was wrong, a near perfect reproduction. But I was not connecting to the music at all. A kind of boring neutral, I assume you understand, what I mean.

Than I spotted a Jeff Rowland amp in the showroom. As had for a long time the
Jeff Rowland Model 9 Ti/HC monos, I wanted to listen to the current best stereo, the


— Jeff Rowland model 825


To my surprise, I liked the 825 more, that the much more expensive Telos 2500.

The flow of music was back, I was able to understand the musicians and their way to play, I was connecting to the music and not longer focussed on the details of reproduction.

Finally I went home with a JRDG 825 in my car :)


And I have to say, that 825 is a perfect match for the MAXX3. I never heard them performing on this level. If I was volunteering in the last month, that MAXX3 likes a low to medium damping factor to sound vibrant and fast and not overcontrolled, they play now as fast and vital as never heard before with a damping factor over 1000. My learning curve with Wilson is continuing :)

The resolution, specially in the midrange, has increased. without becoming a lean performancer (as used to be with the 1060)

Listening to some well known tracks, the new level of basscontrol and extention to the lower frequencies became even more obvious. A very perfect match to the MAXX3 power demand.


Now I will have a look into the market, if a pair of 925 monos will become available for a fair price , seems to me like the narural next step. But may be the difference is not that big, as it seems, that 925 and 825 have the same output power, just in 2 chassis and one more PSU.

I will find out :)
What a stunning system.
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,444
2,411
480
Cologne, Germany
Just to bring this thread up to the current status:

The Jeff Rowland Gear finally left my house after some very satisfying years, being replaced by the

AUDIONET Heisenberg monos Amps

and

AUDIONET Stern Preamplifier

Which was a little better, than the Rowlands. Specially the Heisenberg were able to drive my speakers with more ease.

Realizing that more power does not longer mean slow and fat sounding amps, I tried some more competitors and finally ended up with

Accustic Arts MONO V (very much the same to current MONO VI)

Amplifiers, which are even faster and more quiet than the beloved Heisenberg.

You can even drive Speakers like Avantgarde Acoustic Omega XD without any noise.

My current speakers play with them a lot more life like, so it seems, that this amps will stay again a little longer.

As preamplifer I am using the older

Soulution 720

as I still a friend of standard power supplies.

May be this will change with the performance of the new Soulution 757 Preamplifier,
but I have to compare this in my own room with my personal set up.
 

AudioLibertarian

Well-Known Member
Dec 25, 2017
233
113
150
NEW YORK CITY
Have you tried the amplifiers the JMF Audio from France, or the Symphonic Line Kraft 300 Anniversary Edition by any chance? In my experience amplifiers from those two brands bring touch of humanity to the music, along with "organic" neutrality & non-mechanical quality of music reproduction. Also, any experience in your system with the FM Acoustics units, or the new ultra high end brand from France: APURNA?
 
Last edited:

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,444
2,411
480
Cologne, Germany
Have you tried the amplifiers the JMF Audio from France, or the Symphonic Line Kraft 300 Anniversary Edition by any chance? In my experience amplifiers from those two brands bring touch of humanity to the music, along with "organic" neutrality & non-mechanical quality of music reproduction. Also, any experience in your system with the FM Acoustics units, or the new ultra high end brand from France: APURNA?
There are too many brands out there, no chance to give them all a try, but I like both brands.
JMF and Symphonic Line have indeed a very organic sound signature.

Heisenberg (2x500sinus/8ohm) and JRDG 825 (4x450w/8ohm) were sounding power constraint in comparison to the current
Accustic Arts MONO (2x900w/8ohm).

There are in reality only a view amps out there with comparable power output (to my knowledge).
 
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Kingrex

Well-Known Member
Feb 3, 2019
2,948
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350
I'm curious you thoughts with a Wilson now that you have been away from your hORNS for a few years. What did you gain. What did you loose?
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
1,444
2,411
480
Cologne, Germany
Having had over the last years YG, Wilson, hORNS and my current Avalon Osiris system


it is always the balance of resolution, efficiency, in room frequency response, "speed",
tonal character which makes a speaker great or just nice.
my YG (Anat II ref prof) never found the balance between the Bassmodul and the top modul, the Wilson (Maxx III) never had the bass in the low registers as I wanted it, the hORNS (universal) just had "no" bass in comparison.

best affordable compromise so far is the high powered Avalon (Osiris). High Resolution, Deep and precise bass, the tonality is more on the warmer side of neutral (which I prefer).

Modern speakers, like Stenheim (alumine 3 and 5), have in direct comparison more speed and attack, but are limited in the frequency response in my room, the Alumine Series is just not big enough to fill my room with deep bass.

A Stenheim Ultime 2 would be the logical next step, but currently I am not willing to invest into this direction.
 
Last edited:

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