Natural Sound

[ddk]

There is considerable discussion around the using of very high mass being detrimental due to energy storage in the platter...seems many on WBF don't take much stock in this issue.

Considerable discussion? The only time I've heard that was from Qvortrup in context of his tt which is basically a mid to lower midfi British design. The questions you should ask is to define high mass, the overall design, what type of energy, where and how it's stored, which turntables he's compared it to and how are they bad? A simple claim isn't considerable discussion!

The Horning SATI TT looks very similar in design and comes from
Denmark I believe. Maybe try a demo with that one…I think Audiophile Bill has one…

They couldn't be any more different in concept and design, nothing in common between the two.

I think they said they tried heavier but preferred 50kg. Does the AS have an air bearing?

Even with 50kg you're pushing the limits of an inverted bearing. AS, AF and MS have air floating platters technically none of them have air bearings.

david

 

[bonzo75]

A few weeks ago I posted two videos of St. James Infirmary directly comparing two cartridges on the same arm on my Micro Seiki turntable. I transfered that same SME 3012R tonearm, phono cable, and the vdH Colibri Elite cartridge that I used in that first video to the American Sound turntable, and made a new video this afternoon. Here is a direct comparison of the two turntables with the arm going through the same Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe phono input. The only variable, other that the two turntables, is the location and support for the two turntables. It is a pretty direct comparison.

Micro Seiki table:

American Sound table:

The second one is much better - nuance, more density to the tone, bass, and dynamic range, music flows more than the MS 8000.

If and when possible, please play the Schwanengasang and the Rondo Capriccioso (St Saens) that you had played earlier?

 

[Tango]

In my opinion the AS2000 together with the 3012R are unbeatable. The only missing link is the Neumann DST. If you have those table and arm you must find yourself the Neumann DST (also cables that dont make sound interesting so much. ) I would just say that If you can hear the difference in Peter's two videos, you would still hear an easy deciding difference between his AS/3012R/vdh and AS/3012R/Neumann Dst. The latter just further increases believability. It is just too difficult to describe the sound.

 

[morricab]

Considerable discussion? The only time I've heard that was from Qvortrup in context of his tt which is basically a mid to lower midfi British design. The questions you should ask is to define high mass, the overall design, what type of energy, where and how it's stored, which turntables he's compared it to and how are they bad? A simple claim isn't considerable discussion!

They couldn't be any more different in concept and design, nothing in common between the two.

Even with 50kg you're pushing the limits of an inverted bearing. AS, AF and MS have air floating platters technically none of them have air bearings.

david

By technically not air bearing you mean they use air to lessen the load on a ball bearing?

 

[morricab]

A few weeks ago I posted two videos of St. James Infirmary directly comparing two cartridges on the same arm on my Micro Seiki turntable. I transfered that same SME 3012R tonearm, phono cable, and the vdH Colibri Elite cartridge that I used in that first video to the American Sound turntable, and made a new video this afternoon. Here is a direct comparison of the two turntables with the arm going through the same Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe phono input. The only variable, other that the two turntables, is the location and support for the two turntables. It is a pretty direct comparison.

Micro Seiki table:

American Sound table:

Sounds like the AS recording is a few dB louder.

 

[ddk]

By technically not air bearing you mean they use air to lessen the load on a ball bearing?

In a manner of speaking, there’s no ball bearing the air is purely for vertical lift off the platter. AS has a different design from the other two.

david

 

[microstrip]

There is considerable discussion around the using of very high mass being detrimental due to energy storage in the platter...seems many on WBF don't take much stock in this issue.

Yes, it was an often addressed subject - for example Andy Payor and A.J. Conti referred to it discussing their designs. Unfortunately as these articles are not easily accessible in the net most people will ignore them.

 

[Tango]

If and when possible, please play the Schwanengasang and the Rondo Capriccioso (St Saens) that you had played earlier?

@PeterA. He gets uneasy when he has a hypothesis, wants to know but cannot. He just wants to compare with your older videos. You can bug him by not doing.

 

[morricab]

In a manner of speaking, there’s no ball bearing the air is purely for vertical lift off the platter. AS has a different design from the other two.

david

Ok, so they are all air bearing designs then…

 

[ddk]

Ok, so they are all air bearing designs then…

They're not!
Call them whatever you want, don't feel like arguing.

david

 

[tima]

Ok, so they are all air bearing designs then…

AS has a different design from the other two. the air is purely for vertical lift off the platter.

 

[rando]

What clever ordinance morricab has maneuvered discussion within the range of

this gentle puff from below has no bearing
no similarities beyond a pressurized volume of air
natural sound, silent but deadly effective

 

[PeterA]

In my opinion the AS2000 together with the 3012R are unbeatable. The only missing link is the Neumann DST. If you have those table and arm you must find yourself the Neumann DST (also cables that dont make sound interesting so much. ) I would just say that If you can hear the difference in Peter's two videos, you would still hear an easy deciding difference between his AS/3012R/vdh and AS/3012R/Neumann Dst. The latter just further increases believability. It is just too difficult to describe the sound.

Tang, you are describing the holy trinity. You and David have it. And you will soon have the speakers too. It is something I can only dream about. I am lucky enough to have experienced it, so I know.

 

[microstrip]

Sounds like the AS recording is a few dB louder.

Do not ask me to measure it ... This is Peter's system thread!

But it seems to me there is little high frequency content in these videos.

 

[PeterA]

Do not ask me to measure it ... This is Peter's system thread!

But it seems to me there is little high frequency content in these videos.

Micro, That is because they are crappy YouTube videos and they all suck. Despite that, people cannot resist clicking on them.

 

[microstrip]

Micro, That is because they are crappy YouTube videos and they all suck. Despite that, people cannot resist clicking on them.

No Peter. Properly recorded YouTube videos, carried in controlled and known conditions, can be very useful.

 

[PeterA]

The second one is much better - nuance, more density to the tone, bass, and dynamic range, music flows more than the MS 8000.

If and when possible, please play the Schwanengasang and the Rondo Capriccioso (St Saens) that you had played earlier?

Bonzo, do you mean the Demus Schumann recording that Zerostargeneral suggested? I made one recording of that back in April. If, not, I do not recall making another. Do you have a link to a past video? I am surprised you are not asking for Scheherazade.

 

[bonzo75]

I just noticed it was done with XPP,, not the GC.

I was planning to stagger my requests

 

[PeterA]

I just noticed it was done with XPP,, not the GC.

I was planning to stagger my requests

Ah, OK Bonzo. I like that one and can make a video for you. Cartridge will not be the same, but still a Colibri, old versus new design.

Don't wait too long to make your requests, this table will not be here much longer. Soon, there will be no comparisons to be made in my system, so you will have no interest in visiting. There are quite a few other systems around here though. The other issue is that you would only have New England seafood to eat, oysters, lobster, fish and chips. Dark and Stormies are plentiful.

 

[bonzo75]

Ah, OK Bonzo. I like that one and can make a video for you. Cartridge will not be the same, but still a Colibri, old versus new design.

Don't wait too long to make your requests, this table will not be here much longer. Soon, there will be no comparisons to be made in my system, so you will have no interest in visiting. There are quite a few other systems around here though. The other issue is that you would only have New England seafood to eat, oysters, lobster, fish and chips. Dark and Stormies are plentiful.

I am waiting for Ian to get big horns. I think for classical guys with enough space it is just waiting to happen once they hear.

The AS will come back. I think you probably decided to buy it when you heard it at David's or even Christian's rest is courtship drama and fighting with sense of the budget.