Natural Sound

[morricab]

I think it’s important point with violin the balance between the upper mids and highs versus the body, I find it hard to get the magic without backing off into dullness , there are two important upper frequency regions with violin reproduction that I find hard to get the balance on, this is easier in solo or sonata form for violin but harder with viOlin and orchestra such as concertos unless close miking of the violin more common with contemporary recording

Yes, not knowing this recording so well, it does sound a bit on the dull side with the MS XPP combo. I didn't find the AS setup to be overly aggressive, just less "dull" than the other rendition.

 

[bonzo75]

I found neither dull. Both vdh's have high highs and transients.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, not knowing this recording so well

Which is why the RCA Kreutzer will help as a second data point

 

[morricab]

The AS has more highs but I find some are like jumping up...hence I thought it was a cartridge or setting thing. also will make sense to check across another violin LP like the Kreutzer.

Perhaps checking against a live violin would be in order to understand the balance?

 

[bonzo75]

Perhaps checking against a live violin would be in order to understand the balance?

I heard one 8 times the last month also posted a video up. Are you still listening to your ex's from many years ago?

 

[morricab]

I heard one 8 times the last month also posted a video up. Are you still listening to your ex's from many years ago?

No, I was at a string quartet concert at Tonhalle Kleinsaal about 2 weeks ago... sat in the 4th row.

 

[bonzo75]

Timbre can be a bit up or down, otherwise people would never have listened to cartridges other than vdh, lyra, and the like. All the others like zyx, opus, fuuga, have less. Only DaVa, and Red sparrow on a linear tracker do those highs.

So timbral high is one thing and balance and flow from note to note is another, where some notes jump up. Apart from that there is a harder edge. This is clearly setting thing is my guess.

Also what we listen to it on can define the edge.

 

[awsmone]

No, I was at a string quartet concert at Tonhalle Kleinsaal about 2 weeks ago... sat in the 4th row.

String quartets are so wonderful live but it took me a long to me to get them to work in a stereo system plus it needs to be a “caring “ recording

 

[PeterA]

Timbre can be a bit up or down, otherwise people would never have listened to cartridges other than vdh, lyra, and the like. All the others like zyx, opus, fuuga, have less. Only DaVa, and Red sparrow on a linear tracker do those highs.

So timbral high is one thing and balance and flow from note to note is another, where some notes jump up. Apart from that there is a harder edge. This is clearly setting thing is my guess.

Also what we listen to it on can define the edge.

I am here to learn Bonzo. Thanks for sharing your observations. I'll investigate to see if I can fiddle with fine tuning. It could be all sorts of things. I might even mess with adding a second armboard, arm and cartridge, but that's work for something that is so temporary.

 

[awsmone]

Perlman/Ashkenazy Kreutzer Sonata
Ravel string quartet Tokyo Quartet

 

[microstrip]

I am here to learn Bonzo. (...)

Are you interested in using a software based spectral analyzer?

 

[PeterA]

Are you interested in using a software based spectral analyzer?

I don’t think they would let me take that into the BSO. I get strange looks when I pull out my handheld sound pressure meter.

 

[microstrip]

I don’t think they would let me take that into the BSO. I get strange looks when I pull out my handheld sound pressure meter.

Not in the BSO - it would be meaningless. However HP carried a sound meter to concerts and wrote a very interesting article on the subject.

My question just concerned using it in your system.

 

[morricab]

String quartets are so wonderful live but it took me a long to me to get them to work in a stereo system plus it needs to be a “caring “ recording

Yes, it is one of my go to musical forms for system evaluation, also because I had so much live exposure to them over the years. i have found some very nice recent recordings (Danish String Quartet on ECM for example) and I really love my Mozart Quartets on Telefunken LPs (played by the Alban Berg Quartet) that I have as a box set.

 

[morricab]

Timbre can be a bit up or down, otherwise people would never have listened to cartridges other than vdh, lyra, and the like. All the others like zyx, opus, fuuga, have less. Only DaVa, and Red sparrow on a linear tracker do those highs.

So timbral high is one thing and balance and flow from note to note is another, where some notes jump up. Apart from that there is a harder edge. This is clearly setting thing is my guess.

Also what we listen to it on can define the edge.

What do you mean by Timbral High??

 

[PeterA]

Not in the BSO - it would be meaningless. However HP carried a sound meter to concerts and wrote a very interesting article on the subject.

My question just concerned using it in your system.

Thanks for the suggestion, Fransisco. I do not know much about those devices and am not aware of people using them in their systems to fine tune cartridge set up. Perhaps some day I will solicit advice on the matter. For now, I have found that simply listening works best for set up. The best sounding vinyl setups I have heard have been adjusted by ear.

 

[morricab]

I don’t think they would let me take that into the BSO. I get strange looks when I pull out my handheld sound pressure meter.

But it would be useful at home for making sure SPL is the same so as not to misinterpret listening results at different volume levels. I doubt you would see the subtle spectral shifts from minute cartridge adjustments…but I have never looked at that with a spectral analyser. Yet I have done exactly that with real violins! Quite an experience…

 

[microstrip]

Thanks for the suggestion, Fransisco. I do not know much about those devices and am not aware of people using them in their systems to fine tune cartridge set up. Perhaps some day I will solicit advice on the matter. For now, I have found that simply listening works best for set up. The best sounding vinyl setups I have heard have been adjusted by ear.

Just referred them because you are wanting to carry and post opinions and videos on comparisons . IMHO a comparison should be carried in equal and fair conditions. A quick analysis of your initial videos confirms our ears and clearly shows different frequency responses, something that puzzles me. Surely looking at the preamplifier output would clarify the matter.

 

[PeterA]

Just referred them because you are wanting to carry and post opinions and videos on comparisons . IMHO a comparison should be carried in equal and fair conditions. A quick analysis of your initial videos confirms our ears and clearly shows different frequency responses, something that puzzles me. Surely looking at the preamplifier output would clarify the matter.

Different turntables, different DACs, they sound different. I am not an expert at cartridge set up. There is no need to be puzzled. The videos were made weeks apart and it is possible that the volume setting is slightly different. There is no digital readout on the Lamm and I do not count clicks for possible future video comparisons of turntables that I do not know will be entering my system.

I suspect you refer to me when commenting on not doing “proper” comparisons. Sorry Fransisco.

 

[microstrip]

Different turntables, different DACs, they sound different. I am not an expert at cartridge set up. There is no need to be puzzled. The videos were made weeks apart and it is possible that the volume setting is slightly different. There is no digital readout on the Lamm and I do not count clicks for possible future video comparisons of turntables that I do not know will be entering my system.

I suspect you refer to me when commenting on not doing “proper” comparisons. Sorry Fransisco.

No, I just refer to the conditions. And would be willing to help you to improve them, sorry you do not find it natural.

Just posted because in this particular case I was really interested in your videos - my accessibility to the AS1000 is reduced - and audiophile curiosity won!