Natural Sound

[Tango]

I agree with that Al. I suspect there are many reasons people do or don’t post videos. Just like with varying levels of experience, I tend to weigh comments differently depending on whether the person commenting has made his own videos and understands the challenges and what they represent.

You can be courteous but you know very well Peter that no more poker face once you post video.

 

[Tango]

The more candid the video the better for the viewer. Dont try to be a sound engineer to make your video sound great or better. That could be misleading.

 

[PeterA]

Peter, invest a few hundred in good recording equipment for your videos rather than making excuses for subpar ones. You have obviously want to post videos so make it count…and make sure the levels are the same.

Brad, what specifically do you recommend? The thing I like about iPhone video is the ease and the standard of most other videos. Once you get into better equipment people will simply say this sounds better because the recording equipment is better and then there’s no relative gauge. It then becomes about the recording technique and not the system you’re recording. But I’m open minded and will consider the suggestion.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Peter, invest a few hundred in good recording equipment for your videos rather than making excuses for subpar ones. You have obviously want to post videos so make it count…and make sure the levels are the same.

Brad this is a great example of why people may think twice about sharing in what is going to always be a limited but still valuable medium for sharing. BTW Where is the filter here … and nothings perfect in the way it’s done by any of us and going discrete mic isn’t going to make it so but the thing about everyone using a similar way of capturing these videos is it keeps a playing field benchmarked a bit. I think we can learn quite a lot from simple smartphone grabs and how easy it is for any to do. Complicating it and putting up the gear count and setup required may just make things a bit less attractive and accessible for others and even worse start a audio nervosa based it’s only good if it’s perfect competition… and like thats what we truly need in this sport… more winners lol.

 

[PeterA]

The more candid the video the better for the viewer. Dont try to be a sound engineer to make your video sound great or better. That could be misleading.

Exactly my concern.

 

[morricab]

Brad, what specifically do you recommend? The thing I like about iPhone video is the ease and the standard of most other videos. Once you get into better equipment people will simply say this sounds better because the recording equipment is better and then there’s no relative gauge. It then becomes about the recording technique and not the system you’re recording. But I’m open minded and will consider the suggestion.

Whatever. Either you want the videos to better reflect what you hear in the room so people have a better understanding of what you mean by natural sound or you don’t…and least set the volume at the same level not to bias the recordings…

 

[djsina2]

The more candid the video the better for the viewer. Dont try to be a sound engineer to make your video sound great or better. That could be misleading.

Build a great system then purposely make it sound as bad as possible on video? Strange logic. Even “candid” videos become a battle of who has the best cell phone.

 

[rando]

Whatever. Either you want the videos to better reflect what you hear in the room so people have a better understanding of what you mean by natural sound or you don’t…and least set the volume at the same level not to bias the recordings…

Well that answer shot my reply to pieces.

Here I was hoping you were nudging him towards the gateway of extensively documenting his path to Natural Sound on Youtube.
Just think what fun a collaboration getting David and himself into Jay's garage would be. Tima too.

 

[morricab]

Well that answer shot my reply to pieces.

Here I was hoping you were nudging him towards the gateway of extensively documenting his path to Natural Sound on Youtube.
Just think what fun a collaboration getting David and himself into Jay's garage would be. Tima too.

Jay who?

 

[rando]

Jay who?

Jay's Audio Lab is a Youtube channel Peter has made positive reference towards on numerous occasions in recent months. By popular account he is better suited towards expositions on gear swapping than interviews such as the one he conducted with Emile of Taiko Audio.

The lighthearted mention was directly related to Jay's arc from a system thread, I believe Audiogon, that lead him towards talking to the camera. I misread your intent or even awareness of this. Peter's system videos appear to be made for fun of comparisons alone.

 

[PeterA]

I finally had a chance to listen to the St. James videos with the Micro-Seiki and the American Sound 1000. On my desktop computer, so ... a rather analytical take:

With the AS 1000, I could easily hear more harmonic information, more nuance, from the rythm section (espec. baritone sax, clarinet) and from the 'moaners' before Armstrong starts singing. There was one particular standing bass pluck near that point that was particularly wealthy.

When Armstrong starts singing solo I have a greater sense of his 'presence' v the M-S - though it was not missing there. I don't want to describe that in terms of dimensionality. It had the same impact as I heard from listening to Ella standing before us singing 'Take it Easy' at David's in Utah, but just slightly different - Ella was there there. Not sure how this was recorded I don't think he was in a booth - struggling a bit to get this right ... when he was with the moaners for just a few bars ("yeah yeah yeah", twice ~ 1:32) he is integrated, then he splits away and slips into solo. Armstrong is individuated as the moaners are not. In this case I do not have a sense of him in front of the band as Ella was next to her guitarist, more so of his head. A wee bit of the recording process peaking through or just me.

I find this sense of 'presence' (there-ness?) a key contributor of natural character of the sound.

And lawdy that final cymbal strike goes on foh-ever, 9 seconds? It's all a great treat - thank you Peter for doing this wonderful comparison.

You are most welcome Tim. I can relate to your observations but will simply say that you are comparing the effect of hearing a recording from a different system over YouTube to what you and I heard live with Ella singing next to Joe Pass in David’s living room. There’s a considerable gap between those two listening experiences.

I felt the same way as you listening to Ella in Utah. She was there in front of us. Now David had the AS 2000 plus the Neumann plus the mighty Bionors in a better room all set up by David.

After reading your post, I decided to play that very Ella Fitzgerald and Joe Pass recording on my system. I am enjoying it but even listening live in the room it is not the same experience as we shared in Utah. It is close, and it’s a delicious cigar, but it is not quite a Cohiba.

 

[Al M.]

Build a great system then purposely make it sound as bad as possible on video? Strange logic. Even “candid” videos become a battle of who has the best cell phone.

This.

 

[Al M.]

Brad, what specifically do you recommend? The thing I like about iPhone video is the ease and the standard of most other videos. Once you get into better equipment people will simply say this sounds better because the recording equipment is better and then there’s no relative gauge. It then becomes about the recording technique and not the system you’re recording. But I’m open minded and will consider the suggestion.

The video by Willgolf on this page is apparently recorded with good equipment:

What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

I had the Duo Mezzo's XD's. I don't know if Ked ever heard those? With the bass dsp I thought the bass/mid integration was excellent. My only issue was that I became tired of what I perceived as a slight horn coloration. I have no way of knowing, but I felt wood in the horns, rather than...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[PeterA]

Build a great system then purposely make it sound as bad as possible on video? Strange logic. Even “candid” videos become a battle of who has the best cell phone.

As bad as possible? Strange logic? Here is what I find strange: not being able to appreciate actually hearing a video, however flawed, of speakers and a turntable that most people will very likely never be able to ever hear anywhere in their lives. These items are so incredibly rare.

If you have no interest, fine. There are many places where you can opine about videos. Why come on someone’s personal system thread and piss on it? It is just rude.

 

[awsmone]

As bad as possible? Strange logic? Here is what I find strange: not being able to appreciate actually hearing a video, however flawed, of speakers and a turntable that most people will very likely never be able to ever hear anywhere in your life. These items are so incredibly rare

If you have no interest, fine. There are many places where you can opine about videos. Why come on someone’s personal system thread and piss on it? It is just rude.

PeterA I think you make a good point

the iPhone type videos are a sort of standard no fuss , don’t stress quick comparison, and often give a good impression other than deep bass

the super recording version is something different, and most of us don’t have the time for that , and becomes not really comparable but interesting especially for rare pieces most of us will never hear

this would be better in a drop box file etc rather than reprocessing through YouTube limited bandwidth

 

[cdk84]

Who let it out of the bag that Ian was growing horns?

I thought that was a state secret!

 

[tima]

You are most welcome Tim. I can relate to your observations but will simply say that you are comparing the effect of hearing a recording from a different system over YouTube to what you and I heard live with Ella singing next to Joe Pass in David’s living room. There’s a considerable gap between those two listening experiences.

I felt the same way as you listening to Ella in Utah. She was there in front of us. Now David had the AS 2000 plus the Neumann plus the mighty Bionors in a better room all set up by David.

After reading your post, I decided to play that very Ella Fitzgerald and Joe Pass recording on my system. I am enjoying it but even listening live in the room it is not the same experience as we shared in Utah. It is close, and it’s a delicious cigar, but it is not quite a Cohiba.

Yes, considerable difference between your recording and listening at David's, I agree. I did not mean to diminish the difference. Two completely different sets of equipment. Both had that sense of presence I tried to describe though not on the same level. An example of degrees of natural.

 

[Al M.]

If you have no interest, fine. There are many places where you can opine about videos. Why come on someone’s personal system thread and piss on it? It is just rude.

What do you complain about, Peter? If you want to keep your system thread "clean" and not have someone "piss on it" (really?), you should avoid provocative statements like these, even if they are made in just a casual way:

As I’ve written many times, very few people are actually willing to take the risk of posting a video of their own system because of the comments it will generate.

It was only natural for me to react to it. And no, djsina2's comment, as a reaction to Tango's post in the ensuing discussion, was not rude, it was spot on.

 

[christoph]

Is the Greater Boston Area Bromance about to crumble?
Or is it "only" dividing into two subgroups?

 

[Al M.]

Is the Greater Boston Area Bromance about to crumble?
Or is it "only" dividing into two subgroups?

What does the current public debate have to do with any personal relationships?