Yours is smooth Tango ? Most girls agree, ribbed is more pleasurable !
The one in the pic is bare back
Natural Sound
- Thread starter PeterA
- Start date
The one in the pic is bare back
Chick Corea and Gary Burton Live in Zurich 1979, Chick Corea trio improvisations on ECM (1981 I think). Stan Getz and Chick Corea Sweet Rain on Verve. Bill Evans Waltz for Debby on Riverside. Cannonball Adderly and Milt Jackson, Things are getting Better, on Riverside. Ralph Towner and Jan Garbarek, Solstice, on ECM, Nik Baertsch, Continuum. on ECM for some good non-classical choices.
@PeterA Peter if you have bought the DDK American TT, big contrats.
One of the true turntables I would luv to hear.
@Mike Lavigne ever pondered which way your system would have gone if you kept the DDK turntable order? Have you heard it?
Cheers
One of the true turntables I would luv to hear.
@Mike Lavigne ever pondered which way your system would have gone if you kept the DDK turntable order? Have you heard it?
Cheers
XV-1, I have not bought the American Sound turntable. It is in my system for about a month for turntable evaluation and for learning. It has been playing music for about five days now. All I can say is that it is the best source component I have heard in my system. I took apart and set up my Micro Seiki turntable and learned as much as I could about its construction. I am still learning about its contribution to the sound of my system. Having a superior turntable to use for direct comparisons is an invaluable opportunity. The man who designed this table in the 1970s was a genius. The fact that David Karmeli has learned from this design and was able to improve on it with his AS 2000 is simply astonishing.
In a couple of words, the difference in sound between my Micro Seiki SX 8000 II and this original American Sound in my system is this: more natural. Everything is taken to the next level and the music being presented in my listening room is more believable. The difference was immediately audible. I looked for my new hidden subwoofers. The bass is not more extended, the foundation to the music is simply better. The first things I noticed were a greater sense of ease and the quality of the bass. Then I noticed the quality of everything improved. Cymbals are cleaner, clearer, and more brassy. Saxophone has more reed, more breath, more bite, more tone. There is more energy filling the room. Scale remains the same, but the sound is bigger. I hear more into the music and get clearer glimpses into what I image the musicians are trying to convey. Differences between recordings are more stark. David talks about "mass" from these super tables. I think he means a solidity and presence to the instruments in space, and a physicality to the presentation, both the images and their context. Everything is more grounded, just like the sound and experience of real music in the concert hall, jazz club, or chamber.
I had a friend over yesterday for some listening. He helped with the set up and moving of the massive base and platter. He and I have both been to Utah to visit ddk, so we have been exposed to an extremely high level of what we refer to as natural sound. Being able to assemble, set up, and then play with such a machine in one’s own system is a great way to learn and appreciate what is possible. I am extremely grateful for the chance to be able to live with this extremely rare table for a month or so. It is an extraordinary opportunity. It has changed my appreciation for the role of a turntable to the overall sound potential of a system.
I have been rereading ddk's thread about this original American Sound, as well as MikeL's and Steve William's accounts of their visits to Utah where they heard this original table with the Neumann cartridge, before the new AS 2000 table was built. Everything they wrote about what they heard is as I now hear it in my own system with these electronics and corner horn speakers. It is also clear that the new vdH Colibri Elite and truly classic SME 3012R are apparently doing nothing to hold back the sound. The system enables me to hear clearly what this turntable does to the listening experience, and why it is such an achievement.
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i did hear the AS-1000, back during my ddk visit years ago. obviously i was impressed enough to originally order the AS-2000. then changed my mind 6 months later based on advances my tt was making.
then late last year flirted with the idea again, but in the end decided i preferred having my three tt's to that one tt. at this very moment i'm still on that fence, as to which would have been better. btw; still regret selling my Rockport Sirius III too....although not sure i could have kept it running correctly.
the AS-2000 might be the best tt out there. and i respect the work ddk has done and anyone owning one of these has to be very happy. i simply chose a different path.
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Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Peter
when I was the first to visit David and audition all of his tables, the American Sound with the Neumann cartridge was the best vinyl I have ever heard. I have not heard David’s new one but no doubt it is even better
when I was the first to visit David and audition all of his tables, the American Sound with the Neumann cartridge was the best vinyl I have ever heard. I have not heard David’s new one but no doubt it is even better
Peter, you appear to have arrived at an isolation scheme sufficient for short term usage. Could you explain the thinking behind this as it would seem likely ddk provided it?
Silly aside - You made a comment about your at the time new to you Micro-Seiki to the effect of wielding the whip and the feather. Even if there is no meaning in the inclusion of cards you chose for cartridge alignment. I did get a chuckle at the implications.
Silly aside - You made a comment about your at the time new to you Micro-Seiki to the effect of wielding the whip and the feather. Even if there is no meaning in the inclusion of cards you chose for cartridge alignment. I did get a chuckle at the implications.
Hello Rando, I do not really know what you mean by isolation scheme. In the photograph below you will see the wooden crate that the turntable was packaged in when I picked it up with my truck a couple weeks ago. There is one crate for the base and another one for the platter and a third for miscellaneous parts. I turned one crate upside down on top of a towel and leveled it with shims. I then placed a 1 inch thick steel plate on top of it damped using the same technique I use for the steel plates on my rack.
The platform is exceedingly solid and stable. The turntable itself is extremely heavy that’s something like 500 pounds. I located a third steel column in my basement directly under this turntable. The whole thing is pretty low to the ground and in front of my main equipment rack. The nuance of the loud and the soft and the heavy and the light is where this table distinguishes itself. Gut and feathers indeed.
Regarding those playing cards, you have a keen eye and a potent memory. I play fairly competitive indoor badminton at a club in town called the Gut ‘n Feathers club. It is a delightful place located in an old wooden church building that has been converted to house two courts and social space for dinners and locker rooms. Of course the name refers to the strings of the racket and the goose feathers on the shuttlecock. That deck is a remnant from a distant casino night party.
When I think of whip and feather and now gut and feather, I’m drawn to the sheer heft of this turntable and how it has a beguiling ability to portray both the foundation of a pianists left hand and the agility of his right.
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Yes Peter, just keep telling yourself that TT is only visiting !
Your photos are like old fashion nude pictures, only showing limited parts, just teasing us. Where is the motor assembly and controller ? Is it using a Micro Seiki type like in Davids early pictures, or has it gotten the full Monty DDK upgraded package, with Papst motor and AS 2000 controller ?Thank you Tim. Such a comment from someone with your writing skills is a real compliment.
My primary reference is the concert hall. My reference for what is possible from an audio system is David Karmeli’s system in his listening room in Utah. Given these experiences, it is clear to me that the difference I hear between the two turntables is simply more natural sound. I thought I understood this based simply on what I heard from live instruments. It took two trips to Utah to fully appreciate what Vladimir Lamm and David Karmeli mean when they refer to natural sound from an audio system.
Absent the listening experience that you and I had in Utah, it takes more words to convey to others what I am hearing here from this turntable in my living room.
When my friend came over yesterday to hear this turntable for the first time after he helped me put it together, I decided to play for him some familiar music that he has listened to in my various systems over the last 15 years. What he heard was obvious and immediate but he did not formulate the words until later when we tried to discuss what we were hearing.
My friend sings in choirs and plays the guitar. He talked about the qualities of the instruments, the interplay between the musicians, and the effect on the listener. He spoke as a passionate music lover and as a non-audiophile.
I continue to learn from how he expresses himself and try remember your simple suggestion to just describe what I hear. It is easy to simply say it sounds more natural. I know it from the concert hall, and I know it from Utah. As I have learned from this thread, it is much more difficult to describe to others what I mean.
Yes Peter, just keep telling yourself that TT is only visiting !
Lagonda, I assure you this turntable is only visiting.
It does looks rather comfortably at home tho Peter
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For those who are open to the description, saying 'it sounds more natural' may be all that needs be said.
Readers have come to expect audio component descriptions to occur in certain ways, typically describing items such as timbre, dynamics and soundstage. I find greater intimacy and potency from straightforward accounts that talk about the listening experience. It is as if a listener streams his thought directly to the page while hearing music, speaking from the heart as well as the mind. Describing what one hears while listening to music describes, exposes, if you will, both the component's influence, the listener's experience and the music itself, holistically without abstraction.
David, can the turntable come visit me in Denmark, when it is tired of Peter of coarse. I won't stress it with endless compares and arm/cartridge changes, just a comfortable prolonged sleep over !
That thing is such a beast and yet so elegant at the same time somehow. Peter, thank you for the comparative description. It is amazing (and discouraging at the same time) that the AS separates itself to the degree you say from what should be a very good table in the Micro Seiki.
You are very welcome Brian. I’m seizing the opportunity and really enjoying myself. I’ve learned a lot. Regarding the delta with the Micro Seiki, I was not aware of what I was missing with the latter until I heard it directly from something better in the same system. The Micro Seiki will serve me very well with no regrets until I find something that I can buy that is better. I now know what to listen for.
The Micro Seiki is truly special. It is one of the best turntables still somewhat available. The American Sound and David’s AS 2000 are ultra rare. Hearing a really good Western Electric horn or the Bionors should be thought of as an education, a target to which one can aim. This turntable is the same. They are examples of what was once achieved. They should serve as guides for what could be possible.
This is WBF after all. The best should be celebrated.
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I think Peter A it is useful to put other components in your system to see if there is more you can get out of your own components
but frankly I suspect you are “aurally” ruined, and the sound of the AS will haunt you every time you listen to your system, poor man
I also noticed that being in the Northern heminsphere the direction of up is opposite of us in the Southern Hemisphere lol
As always, Peter's writeup is clear, detailed, and succinct. ( I agree with TimA's assessment )
My take on the system in its present configuration, with both the Micro Seiki and American Sound turntables is that either offers an immersive listening experience that sounds like live performance. There's simply More of everything retrieved by the American Sound table: more texture, more clarity, more nuance, and presentation that is More convincing --more like a live performance-- than even the exceptional transcription offered by the Micro Seiki SX 8008 II.
When I listen to this system, the words that come to mind are Not audiophile vocabulary: I don't think of soundstage, resolution or extended highs. I am simply involved with the performance, the interpretation of the score. That is what informs both my perception and my discussion when I listen to this system: the music.
And that may be the most succinct explanation I can offer for Natural Sound.
My take on the system in its present configuration, with both the Micro Seiki and American Sound turntables is that either offers an immersive listening experience that sounds like live performance. There's simply More of everything retrieved by the American Sound table: more texture, more clarity, more nuance, and presentation that is More convincing --more like a live performance-- than even the exceptional transcription offered by the Micro Seiki SX 8008 II.
When I listen to this system, the words that come to mind are Not audiophile vocabulary: I don't think of soundstage, resolution or extended highs. I am simply involved with the performance, the interpretation of the score. That is what informs both my perception and my discussion when I listen to this system: the music.
And that may be the most succinct explanation I can offer for Natural Sound.
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