Natural Sound

[ddk]

Hi Peter,
While I understand David's reasons, I cannot get around two problems I hear, one is congestion that occurs in busier passages...one doesn't hear this in live, unamplified settings. The other is that while it sounds perhaps smoother and a bit richer it also sounds less complex in terms of subtle tonal shifts. There is complexity there that sounds like it is being, dare I say, homogenized or at least somewhat glossed over. Ambience is less well presented as well, which I think has a lot to do with the stylus profile...the VdH, with it's complex stylus, is digging deeper into the grooves for more minute information.

From this reply I don’t think you understand my reasons for preferring one video over the other.

Interesting that David sells ZYX...you should have him send you a choice one...might do both of what you want.

I sell Ortofon too ! Just not vintage ones. vdH has been my own favorite for nearly a decade but there are sample variations.

david

 

[Ron Resnick]

The optical cartridges are turd - if one finds themselves enjoying those then they are imho likely very early in their analogue understanding.

Hi Bill,

I would be curious to learn your detailed thoughts about this, and the details of the systems in which you have heard optical cartridges and found them to be “turd,” if you kindly would reply on my DS Audio thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ds-audio-grand-master-emm-labs-ds-eq1.33147/page-10

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi Bill,

I would be curious to learn your detailed thoughts about this, and the details of the systems in which you have heard optical cartridges and found them to be “turd,” if you kindly would reply on my DS Audio thread: https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/ds-audio-grand-master-emm-labs-ds-eq1.33147/page-10

Hi Ron,

Might be better if you pm me rather than me going along to that thread and pissing on everyone’s bonfire. They seem to be enjoying themselves over there and I don’t want to ruin the party.

Sorry forgot to add. Was only discussing this topic with Ked also recently and he shares similar views so might be worth pm’ing him too.

 

[tima]

The other question is just how much detail do we hear when listening live in Symphony Hall? I hear a lot of string resolution in a chamber setting when the instrument is 10 feet from me, less when sitting in the 10th row at the BSO, and not much when I’m sitting in the middle or back of the hall.

The whole "where one sits in the hall" is a bit of a red herring, IMO. You have to think more along the lines of "where were the microphones placed for this recording" and then you will understand better what the recording should sound like rather than what you wished it sounded like. People who are using close mic'd recordings (most of them) and wanting a 10th row or back of hall experience will need to deliberately detune their system to lessen the kind of things you hear up close but don't far away, including high frequency energy. I have one classical recording where I know exactly how it was made and it was with a single stereo ribbon microphone at 6 meters from the stage. This puts it in around the 10th row. And while this recording, which is also minimally processed, sounds very much like live, it is one of the only ones I have where it sounds like live in the 10th row. You hear less individual instrument separation, less bow on the strings, less bit of the horns etc.

This gets into the whole stereophony issue. I've been meaning to start a thread on this when I get the chance to do it properly - not appropriate for Peter's system thread, so just a mention. Our microphones are what, 6-8 inches apart? Microphones for recording are varying feet apart and likely (unfortunately) more than two or three nowadays. We have two channels/speakers in the listeing room. We have two ears but we don't hear in stereo in the concert hall.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Hi Ron,

Might be better if you pm me rather than me going along to that thread and pissing on everyone’s bonfire. They seem to be enjoying themselves over there and I don’t want to ruin the party.

Sorry forgot to add. Was only discussing this topic with Ked also recently and he shares similar views so might be worth pm’ing him too.

Thank you for your sensitivity to the generally positive views expressed by people on that existing thread. But my desire to learn your impressions is not at all for my personal edification (I've heard DS Audio optical cartridges seven times across three systems, two of the three of which I am very familiar with). I am interested in seeing opposing views publicly expressed. You are a very experienced audiophile and an extremely talented loudspeaker designer, and I wanted that thread to have the public benefit of your impressions of the DS Audio optical cartridges.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Thank you for your sensitivity to the generally positive views expressed by people on that existing thread. But my desire to learn your impressions is not at all for my personal edification (I've heard DS Audio optical cartridges seven times across three systems, two of the three of which I am very familiar with). I am interested in seeing opposing views publicly expressed. You are a very experienced audiophile and an extremely talented loudspeaker designer, and I wanted that thread to have the public benefit of your impressions of the DS Audio optical cartridges.

Hi Ron - thank you for kind words. It isn’t really my style to wander over there and be very negative, which I would be if I am being genuine. I rather keep quiet and accept others have their own opinion.

Peter - sorry for derailing your thread. Any new updates your end?

 

[PeterA]

Peter - sorry for derailing your thread. Any new updates your end?

Hello Bill. Just some minor refinements in my system before David comes to inspect the set up. I repositioned the steel columns under the rack’s front legs and I think I’ve come up with a way to put mini jacks from the stone foundation up to underneath the rack’s rear legs. There is a lot of weight coming down on four corners. It is about 1600-1700 lbs including the rack.

Oh, and I am so happy with the vintage Ortofon cartridge that I bought a second sample as a back up to keep in a drawer in case anything happens to the beautiful NOS one David sent me.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hello Bill. Just some minor refinements in my system before David comes to inspect the set up. I repositioned the steel columns under the rack’s front legs and I think I’ve come up with a way to put mini jacks from the stone foundation up to underneath the rack’s rear legs. There is a lot of weight coming down on four corners. It is about 1600-1700 lbs including the rack.

Oh, and I am so happy with the vintage Ortofon cartridge that I bought a second sample as a back up to keep in a drawer in case anything happens to the one David sent me.

Oh cool. What sort of money do these Ortofon carts go for now?

 

[Audiophile Bill]

The weather in UK is so hot it feels like south of Spain. As such I have been spinning some of this:

 

[Tango]

Hello Bill. Just some minor refinements in my system before David comes to inspect the set up. I repositioned the steel columns under the rack’s front legs and I think I’ve come up with a way to put mini jacks from the stone foundation up to underneath the rack’s rear legs. There is a lot of weight coming down on four corners. It is about 1600-1700 lbs including the rack.

Oh, and I am so happy with the vintage Ortofon cartridge that I bought a second sample as a back up to keep in a drawer in case anything happens to the one David sent me.

Yesterday I WhatApped ddk. He said the cartridge he sent me long ago was the Ortofon like yours but a SPU style with transformer in it. Back then I could not get it to work with my phono so I have been sitting on it not knowing. I think I will try it again this time through mm input. Just have to find it first.

 

[Tango]

The weather in UK is so hot it feels like south of Spain. As such I have been spinning some of this:

View attachment 96800

Ballet music? Boring or not boring this oneBill?

 

[PeterA]

Oh cool. What sort of money do these Ortofon carts go for now?

Check out eBay. There were six or seven listed before my post, now there are two or three ranging from $300 to $800 depending on headshell etc. An unbelievable low price given the performance. The one I bought has a slightly lower serial number than the one David gave me but I just put it in an SME head shell and inserted it into the arm and it sounds identical indicating great consistency.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Ballet music? Boring or not boring this oneBill?

Hey Tang. Well not ballet in the normal classical sense. Here is the type of thing. I don’t find it boring at all but recognise not everyone likes this type of stuff:

 

[Tango]

Hey Tang. Well not ballet in the normal classical sense. Here is the type of thing. I don’t find it boring at all but recognise not everyone likes this type of stuff:

Great! Not boring.
From the video it sounds good too. When I buy record and hear the sound like this on video normally it is not a miss.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Great! Not boring.
From the video it sounds good too. When I buy record and hear the sound like this on video normally it is not a miss.

I have been buying quite a lot of old Columbia monos recently - enjoying them all so much. Antithesis of hifi but the music and the very analogue / natural sound is addictive.

 

[PeterA]

 

[Audiophile Bill]

View attachment 96835

One proud owner, and so you should be

 

[PeterA]

One proud owner, and so you should be

There is that Bill. I love seeing the photographs of your beautiful wooden horn creations. I love the forms and the way light plays off of them. I would take a lot of pictures of them just for pleasure.

I am doing the same with this turntable. I find myself marveling at its form and the way light plays on the surface. I studied architecture for years and enjoy taking pictures.

Perhaps some will enjoy seeing these images the way I enjoy looking at your speakers.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

There is that Bill. I love seeing the photographs of your beautiful wooden horn creations. I love the forms and the way light plays off of them. I would take a lot of pictures of them just for pleasure.

I am doing the same with this turntable. I find myself marveling at its form and the way light plays on the surface. I studied architecture for years and enjoy taking pictures.

Perhaps some will enjoy seeing these images the way I enjoy looking at your speakers.

Definitely - I totally get it. Even better - I don’t think that feeling will go away in time with the AS2000.

 

[tima]

Definitely - I totally get it. Even better - I don’t think that feeling will go away in time with the AS2000.

The Art of Playing Music is timeless.

... even when the internet goest out.