Natural sound was never presented as "what's best," it was presented as "the only way to achieve a natural sounding stereo system." That's why it's polarizing, and that's why it's tribal. When I've suggested to members of the tribe to try non-LAMM equipment the response is always the same: "our tribal leader has tried everything and this is what's best." I can assure you that the tribe leader has never heard new brands like EMIA or Thomas Mayer on his system. Brands that would sound fantastic on high sensitivity horns. Brands from active manufacturers that are still creating and making new designs.
DDK might live rent free in many people's heads, but there is nothing rent free about being a member of his tribe. It's actually quite expensive.
Jeff, you are correct that natural sound was never presented as what is best. I presented it as a list of observations based on listening to four systems at David Karmeli's house in Utah and as a reference to live unamplified music. I never said it was the only way to achieve anything accept my own goals, and I never told anyone else to adopt my approach or buy the same gear.
I rejected my own past values and approach to the hobby and moved in a completely different direction. Note that this is my system thread where I ruminate about what I did and why. It is not a treatise on audio in the general forum by someone telling others what they should do. That was never my intent or interest. Besides, no one has that much influence over such a diverse group of hobbyists.
For the sake of argument, I will assume you are calling me a member of the tribe and David Karmeli the tribal leader. So when you say you "suggested to members of the tribe to try non-LAMM equipment the response is always the same:..." I have to disagree. Here is why: I was not a member of the tribe before I owned my Lamm gear. Having just become a tribe member by buying the Lamm gear, why would you then suggest to someone to forget the LL1 Reference, LP2.1 Deluxe, and pair of ML2s he just bought and try something different? Why would you think anyone would do that right after buying all this new stuff? Why would anyone take your suggestion seriously? I know I never responded the way you are now claiming, so you must be describing someone else. You did share with me your joy in trying a bunch of different inexpensive Chinese amps after selling your Lamm amps. And, come to think of it, why would you suggest to someone who is happy with his gear, to try something else anyway? Who does that? Someone cationed me about the AS2000 turntable too. I do not get that.
I can tell you that DDK has heard Thomas Mayer gear and as Ron says, "It was not his cup of tea". That is a quaint and polite way to put it, and I thank Ron for that expression as it seems harmless. Incidentally, Lamm is not the only electronics in David's vintage systems, it is just the preferred brand. There are some good alternatives that he also enjoys that are less expensive.
No, I reject you characterization and implication about the costs of being a member of the tribe. As a fellow landlord, I appreciate your reference, but no one here is subsidized or receives free housing. I chose to buy my gear and everything it entails. It is not inexpensive, but it is cheap given the joy I receive in return. You used to ask me and David for all sorts of advice. It was free. When David stopped responding, you started asking me for his recommendations. You did it again just the other day when you asked this tribe member what cables he uses.
Jeff, you appreciated David's advice when you ditched your solid state gear and modern turntable for SET and vintage speakers and your wonderful Garrard 401, SME 3012R, and Ortofon SPUs. You forget all that because you two had a falling out.
Now you refer to David Karmeli as a tribal leader and to me as a member of his tribe. It bothers me no more than that other member who refers to me as one of the Karmeli twins. I assure you that David could care less what anyone here thinks about him or his friends.
