Natural Sound

[bonzo75]

just read Tang’s comment about on his system in YouTube.

View attachment 119958

yes the ML3 tubes were gone, the ML2 sockets, and the Neumann cart as well wasn’t working.

the subs were never integrated properly and therefore the videos before that had differing distance of speakers to the wall and crossovers for subs different in each video to adjust for the change in the distance. So when someone says these videos are the best and the subs are well integrated, I know that is not an honest opinion. If someone wants to think that all systems that house similar components to what one has and sold from the same source are always the best, that is tribal. That is then no different from a Wilson owner saying all Wilson rooms in Munich sounded the best.

 

[tima]

the concept of exclusiveness and dogmatic views created the tribal perspective. critical characterizations broadly made. time and time and time again over a long period. and the acceptance of petulant behavior as some sort of badge of honor. righteousness run amuck. the bed was made.

broken promises? so much baloney.

That's in your head Mike, right next to the perfect organic orange. Back up your squishy words with quotes.

 

[tima]

sorry Peter, in Tim's response to Ked was a barely veiled message to me. i responded. nothing more. his choice to do that.

Yep I was not trying to be subtle but you obviously recognized yourself in what I wrote.

 

[morricab]

If that's your opinion, back it up. Maybe you and Resnick and Lavigne and morricab and 'I am a Scientist' and the ankle-biters can produce the quotes to support what you are saying. Otherwise it's your imagination. Talk is cheap.

Sorry, what am I exactly being accused of saying, Tim? Last time I checked I never slammed your choice of gear. An “ankle biter” I most certainly am not.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Maybe you and Resnick and Lavigne and morricab and 'I am a Scientist' and the ankle-biters can produce the quotes to support what you are saying.

Do you see a post from me about this in the last few pages? Please leave me out of this fencing match.

 

[PeterA]

That's in your head Mike, right next to the perfect organic orange. Back up your squishy words with quotes.

It is just like when people kept telling me that I was writing that natural sound is the only way the best way and everyone else’s system does not sound natural etc. etc. I asked for quotes and evidence. All I received was silence.

Mike has left the thread so I can not ask him what he means by “broken promises“.

The discussion is contentious because you and I are pushing back at the people who come out of nowhere, contribute nothing of substance, and simply take pot shots and leave. They do not support their position. The click like or the laughing emoji just to support those taking the shots. You are calling the clickers out on it.

 

[tima]

Sorry, what am I exactly being accused of saying, Tim? Last time I checked I never slammed your choice of gear. An “ankle biter” I most certainly am not.

Guilt by association to a liked post. In this case, this one ... your name was there, so I included you. I recognize you have not criticized my choices

Natural sound was never presented as "what's best," it was presented as "the only way to achieve a natural sounding stereo system." That's why it's polarizing, and that's why it's tribal. When I've suggested to members of the tribe to try non-LAMM equipment the response is always the same: "our tribal leader has tried everything and this is what's best." I can assure you that the tribe leader has never heard new brands like EMIA or Thomas Mayer on his system. Brands that would sound fantastic on high sensitivity horns. Brands from active manufacturers that are still creating and making new designs.

DDK might live rent free in many people's heads, but there is nothing rent free about being a member of his tribe. It's actually quite expensive.

 

[PeterA]

Do you see a post from me about this in the last few pages? Please leave me out of this fencing match.

Ron, Tim and I get a lot of grief because we support each other‘s posts and opinions by clicking the like button. We’re called tribe members, the Karmeli twins, and someone even suggested we just shut down the thread so Peter and Tim can talk and support each other. Such nonsense.

When you, Brad, and Moon do the same for Jeff’s post, you should expect Tim to notice and not by surprised when he calls you out on it and asks you to defend your support of what Jeff wrote with specific examples.

 

[tima]

It is just like when people kept telling me that I was writing that natural sound is the only way the best way and everyone else’s system does not sound natural etc. etc. I asked for quotes and evidence. All I received was silence.

Yes, I agree. I was there. In my mind the primary creators and perpetrators of that ad hominem propaganda are Mike, Ron and Al with many associated likers and lickers. It is over several years now and the same tired cliché is trotted out this time by Tyo. It is the factionalizing of your thread with the (TM) by microstrip, and the associated attack on David that I see as a root cause of the factionalizing of the forum generally, at least among the people who show regularly. That and the people leaving or chased off for various reasons. Under the covers I believe a lot of it is political -- didn't Tyo get in a huff over a book David posted as having read in the book thread? No point in hiding all of this. Propriety left some time ago.

 

[tima]

Do you see a post from me about this in the last few pages? Please leave me out of this fencing match.

Try one or two months, but really you've been at it with others for what seems like a few years. You can't always play Sgt. Schulz.

 

[jeff1225]

If that's your opinion, back it up. Maybe you and Resnick and Lavigne and morricab and 'I am a Scientist' and the ankle-biters can produce the quotes to support what you are saying. Otherwise it's your imagination. Talk is cheap.

Facts: you all bought long discontinued gear from your "friend" (really your dealer) for top prices. There's my back up.

 

[jeff1225]

Yes, I agree. I was there. In my mind the primary creators and perpetrators of that ad hominem propaganda are Mike, Ron and Al with many associated likers and lickers. It is over several years now and the same tired cliché is trotted out this time by Tyo. It is the factionalizing of your thread with the (TM) by microstrip, and the associated attack on David that I see as a root cause of the factionalizing of the forum generally, at least among the people who show regularly. That and the people leaving or chased off for various reasons. Under the covers I believe a lot of it is political -- didn't Tyo get in a huff over a book David posted as having read in the book thread? No point in hiding all of this. Propriety left some time ago.

[EDIT: Personal commentary removed]

Anyway...moving you and Peter back to ignore. Enjoy your life.

 

[Lagonda]

just read Tang’s comment about on his system in YouTube.

View attachment 119958

That both Peter and Tang have had breakdowns, just solidifies my preference for good SS, i just don't want to have all the hassle with tubes.

 

[tima]

[

Facts: you all bought long discontinued gear from your "friend" (really your dealer) for top prices.

The final thing that got your tribe leader banned was spinning vaccine conspiracy non-sense when some poor guy had a heart attack on the football field. That's your leader, a class act.

Anyway...moving you and Peter back to ignore. Enjoy your life.

So much for facts. I cannot speak for Peter but in my case that is false. You keep throwing stuff on the wall, but it doesn't stick.

There was a time you needed help and asked for a lot of advice from that class act, but your compulsive political lens got in the way of friendship. That's too bad. Not the only time though that friendship has lost to other things like forum policy and turned out costly. Too bad there as well. Priorities come to the surface.

 

[adyc]

That both Peter and Tang have had breakdowns, just solidifies my preference for good SS, i just don't want to have all the hassle with tubes.

I agree. I have very bad experiences of tube gears. I will never go back to tube especially power amp even if it gives the best and most natural sound in the world.

 

[adyc]

There was a time you needed help and asked for a lot of advice from that class act, but your compulsive political lens got in the way of friendship. That's too bad. Not the only time though that friendship has lost to other things like forum policy and turned out costly. Too bad there as well. Priorities come to the surface.

That’s why it is never good to talk politics with your dealers and friends. It always ends up poorly.

 

[PeterA]

Facts: you all bought long discontinued gear from your "friend" (really your dealer) for top prices. There's my back up.

Actually I just bought a Lamm LP1 a few months ago. Yes my turntable is now discontinued because it was a limited production with 12 samples offered for sale. My speakers and cartridge are from 1959. Long out of production.

You referred to David Karmeli as an antique dealer. Do you ridicule people who buy antiques for the sake of it?

it is true that the original ML2 is out of production which is why I wanted to buy that version as a back up. Is that really why you’re criticizing me?


Jeff, David is a good friend with whom I share a number of interests. We chat all the time. Tim and I visited him together and we all had a great vacation. He is much more than my audio dealer. You too learned from him for a while.

 

[PeterA]

That’s why it is never good to talk politics with your dealers and friends. It always ends up poorly.

I discuss politics with my friend and dealer David all the time. It doesn’t get in the way of anything. We don’t always agree but we actually listen to each other and respect each other’s opinion. I remember a time when that was more of the normal behavior. Much is now seen only through a political and tribal lens that get in the way of learning and growth. We are a bunch of adults having achieved something in life. I’m surprised at the hostility here.

 

[PeterA]

just read Tang’s comment about on his system in YouTube.

View attachment 119958

adyc, what is the purpose of posting this on my system thread? Tang is no longer a member here. He is perfectly capable of contacting Lamm or his dealer for service. He cannot join in the discussion and this has nothing to do with the subject of my system.

If I read about some needed service on a VYGER turntable on some forum or chat site, should I go and post that information on the VYGER thread here and ask Argo and Bonzo about the new version and if they fixed those problems? Should I share what a dealer told me about those turntables?

Tubes have a lifespan and can be replaced. The tube socket repair is inconvenient. The Neumann cartridge breaking is a tragedy. I’m sorry to read about all.

 

[treitz3]

Hello and good evening to you, gentlemen.

I would like to remind you that part of the TOS of being a member of this forum is to talk about the thread subject. It is quite obvious that we are now off of that topic.

We do not discuss politics and posts should remain about the thread topic, not about personal commentary about other members.

We are better than that.

If you want to continue talking about "Natural Sound", then by all means? Do so. With that said, any more commentary about personal grievances against other members of this forum will be deleted and administrative action will be taken.

I would like to remind you that this is not your playground to post what you want. Being a member here is a privilege and not a right.

Post accordingly.

Tom