Natural Sound

[PeterA]

I shared a live video of her playing a Paganini caprice at Tonhalle Zurich being played through my system.

Thanks, I searched and found it.

 

[PeterA]

I asked David Karmeli if he knew of any original Lamm ML2s around for sale. A few months later, he found a pair, offered it to me, and I bought it. The amps were shipped to Utah so that David could listen to them, inspect the tubes and otherwise make sure all was in order before shipping them to me. They arrived last week. I am now enjoying comparing this new pair to my other pair. One tube is different and the binding posts are different, but otherwise, they are the same. The new pair is a very late production sample of the original version of the amps. They are becoming increasingly rare. I do not know how David comes up with this stuff, but he has a way. If I ever get a bigger room, these spare amps will serve to power a pair of subwoofers. They will also be around in storage in case my amps ever need to go to the factory for repair.

 

[bonzo75]

I asked David Karmeli if he knew of any original Lamm ML2s around for sale. A few months later, he found a pair, offered it to me, and I bought it. The amps were shipped to Utah so that David could listen to them, inspect the tubes and otherwise make sure all was in order before shipping them to me. They arrived last week. I am now enjoying comparing this new pair to my other pair. One tube is different and the binding posts are different, but otherwise, they are the same. The new pair is a very late production sample of the original version of the amps. They are becoming increasingly rare. I do not know how David comes up with this stuff, but he has a way. If I ever get a bigger room, these spare amps will serve to power a pair of subwoofers. They will also be around in storage in case my amps ever need to go to the factory for repair.

I don’t understand. So you bought a spare set of the same model?

 

[PeterA]

I don’t understand. So you bought a spare set of the same model?

Yes. If I ever get subs, these will be the best approach. And occasionally amps need to be repaired.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes. If I ever get subs, these will be the best approach. And occasionally amps need to be repaired.

But back up is also needed for phono and pre?

Or are you planning to get subs for sure.

 

[PeterA]

But back up is also needed for phono and pre?

Or are you planning to get subs for sure.

I already have a Lamm phono stage back up and lots of spare cartridges. Subs will depend on whether or not I’m ever in a different room.

 

[treitz3]

Peter, why would you want tube amps for subs?

Genuine question, not a knock or anything else. Just curious.

Tom

 

[PeterA]

Peter, why would you want tube amps for subs?

Genuine question, not a knock or anything else. Just curious.

Tom

Tom, I believe using the same amps throughout the system produces the best sound. I would use subs that can be driven by the Lamm SET, either vintage or custom.

 

[jeff1225]

I asked David Karmeli if he knew of any original Lamm ML2s around for sale. A few months later, he found a pair, offered it to me, and I bought it. The amps were shipped to Utah so that David could listen to them, inspect the tubes and otherwise make sure all was in order before shipping them to me. They arrived last week. I am now enjoying comparing this new pair to my other pair. One tube is different and the binding posts are different, but otherwise, they are the same. The new pair is a very late production sample of the original version of the amps. They are becoming increasingly rare. I do not know how David comes up with this stuff, but he has a way. If I ever get a bigger room, these spare amps will serve to power a pair of subwoofers. They will also be around in storage in case my amps ever need to go to the factory for repair.

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Peter,
What cables are you using these days for RCA’s to your amps?

 

[PeterA]

Peter,
What cables are you using these days for RCA’s to your amps?

Belden single ended Jeff.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Tom, I believe using the same amps throughout the system produces the best sound. I would use subs that can be driven by the Lamm SET, either vintage or custom.

Plus one Peter. If you’ve got great full range coherence the quickest way to throw away one of the greatest assets of having a two way first order crossover is to then go and chase a tick box of outcomes like using tubes for mids and solid state for bass or subs (not the best choice I find at any rate for bass).

Even to mix and match between different characteristic (and different topologies) of tube amps or same with using (different) solid state amps together aiming at optimising for specific frequencies becomes a tick box for analysis rather than keeping the whole thing genuinely more seamless. Coherence and tone for me are base secrets of musicality and more valuable than creating disjointed characteristics by chasing some recipe of idealised separated sonic elements.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Yes. If I ever get subs, these will be the best approach. And occasionally amps need to be repaired.

Or you could use them to run a pair of Euronor juniors up in the bedroom… just sayin.

 

[PeterA]

Or you could use them to run a pair of Euronor juniors up in the bedroom… just sayin.

I would love a JBL Paragon in the dining room or bedroom powered by ML2s. And a natural sounding CD player for fewer interruptions.

 

[Argonaut]

Tom, I believe using the same amps throughout the system produces the best sound. I would use subs that can be driven by the Lamm SET, either vintage or custom.

Might you elucidate where you heard this theory put into practice and with which amplification and with which main and sub transducers ?

Have you personally heard irrefutable audio benefits of this matched main and sub amplification ? And if so might you describe them ?

Matching amplification between say mid and base within the same transducer is not uncommon , however matching exactly the amplification between the lower base of said transducer and a separate sub base transducer certainly is !

 

[LMR-Miguel]

All of the system videos sound compromised compared to the YouTube source versions. I suspect the yt sources are far more accurate to the recordings and serve as better reference.

this is quite an old video with lesser components being recorded, It's sole purpose (for me at least) is to help me evaluate my own discovery path. I should probably redo a similar exercise using my current reference systems

 

[PeterA]

Might you elucidate where you heard this theory put into practice and with which amplification and with which main and sub transducers ?

Theory? I heard an example of this approach from David Karmeli‘s main system. And I’ve heard the videos of Tang‘s new system. I heard the opposite approach in Romy the Cat’s system. I have also heard quite a few unsuccessful attempts at trying to integrate separate powered subwoofers into systems. The character often does not match the main speakers well enough.

Horn systems, very efficient subwoofers, Lamm SET amplification.

Have you personally heard irrefutable audio benefits of this matched main and sub amplification ? And if so might you describe them ?

Yes.

Coherence resulting in a natural sounding presentation. A very seamless extended sound with realistic timbre and convincing spatial information and sense of venue ambience.

Matching amplification between say mid and base within the same transducer is not uncommon , however matching exactly the amplification between the lower base of said transducer and a separate sub base transducer certainly is !

What is common does not guarantee what sounds best. People often mix-and-match amplifiers to drivers because modern subs usually need big power. A different approach is using the amplifier you want and then finding speakers and subs that work with that amplifier for a seamless, coherent, and uniform presentation.

I am simply describing an alternative approach, not judging what others might prefer. Can you present an argument for why using subwoofers and main speakers that can both be driven by two of the same SET amplifiers is not a good approach?

 

[jeff1225]

Belden single ended Jeff.

What model number? There are so many available. I use the 8402.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I would love a JBL Paragon in the dining room or bedroom powered by ML2s. And a natural sounding CD player for fewer interruptions.

Nice, the paragon is a wonderful piece of design.

 

[Argonaut]

Theory? I heard an example of this approach from David Karmeli‘s main system. And I’ve heard the videos of Tang‘s new system. I heard the opposite approach in Romy the Cat’s system.

The same dealer and Influencer who sold you a second set of Lamm ML2… Well there is an unexpected surprise …

 

[Argonaut]

Nice, the paragon is a wonderful piece of design.

Yet sounds rather coloured and quite audibly rolled off like CN-191 … Wonderful with a glass of single malt and some Frances Albert or Bach 6 cello solo … rather less so with a little ‘Night On Bald Mountain‘ or ‘War Pigs From The End Live’