Natural Sound

[PeterA]

The second video sounds out of phase, are you sure the cartridge is connected correctly?

Hello Rexp. I first checked the XPP which has the channels reversed so I always have to remember to switch the left and right channels when putting the cartridge in the headshell with the leads. I then checked the GS and it looks correct but just to be sure I switched the positive and negative for each channel. The sound became slightly less focused. Then I played the Cardis test record, which has a track for polarity and confirmed the cartridge is correctly marked incorrectly wired for polarity. Then my preamp has a phase switch and I tried that.

While I was experimenting, I did play with anti-skate, which was already on the lowest setting at 0.5 g. The recommended is .2 to .4g. So I disabled the anti-skate and it sounds better.

My conclusion is that everything is correct. The GC seems to have better ambiance and more air. I wonder if that is what you were hearing. Thank you for the suggestion. The Cardas LP has a very nice write up on the effective polarity and what you will hear with certain instruments.

 

[Atmasphere]

Then my preamp has a phase switch and I tried that.

[snip] The Cardas LP has a very nice write up on the effective polarity and what you will hear with certain instruments.

The only preamp I know of that has a phase switch is the Harmon Kardon Citation 1. In the Citation 1 the phase is inverted in one channel only when the switch is operated.

But a number of high end preamps including ours have polarity switches, which invert the phase in both channels. We've had them on our preamps since their inception in the late 80s. We found that its not a matter of certain instruments; its a matter of the recording having all the phase relationships right, which only happens if unless the recording is either mono (done with one microphone) or true stereo done with exactly two microphones.

 

[Audiohertz2]

You can invert the phase at the speaker output on the amplifier if not on the pre amp ..

 

[Lagonda]

The only preamp I know of that has a phase switch is the Harmon Kardon Citation 1. In the Citation 1 the phase is inverted in one channel only when the switch is operated.

But a number of high end preamps including ours have polarity switches, which invert the phase in both channels. We've had them on our preamps since their inception in the late 80s. We found that its not a matter of certain instruments; its a matter of the recording having all the phase relationships right, which only happens if unless the recording is either mono (done with one microphone) or true stereo done with exactly two microphones.

Probably phase in both channels like yours.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Probably phase in both channels like yours.
View attachment 141314

Beautiful and rare this series

 

[Lagonda]

Beautiful and rare this series

I have owned mine 38 years from new, still play them for hours every day.

 

[DasguteOhr]

As a young guy, I stood in front of the window of the hi-fi shop. The 200 and 900 series made me want to have them. Beautifully crafted devices, but unfortunately it never worked out.

 

[Lagonda]

As a young guy, I stood in front of the window of the hi-fi shop. The 200 and 900 series made me want to have them. Beautifully crafted devices, but unfortunately it never worked out.View attachment 141316View attachment 141317

928 sounds better than 200 series, i have CD and pre from 200 also.

 

[morricab]

I have owned mine 38 years from new, still play them for hours every day.

Got on the wrong track from the beginning and never looked back, eh?

 

[Lagonda]

Got on the wrong track from the beginning and never looked back, eh?

Looked back, forward, to both sides and continued with the sound and equipment i prefer the sound of. My ML Statements are the second set i own, frankly because nothing else i have ever heard pushes my buttons the way they do, when paying the music i like.

 

[morricab]

Looked back, forward, to both sides and continued with the sound and equipment i prefer the sound of. My ML Statements are the second set i own, frankly because nothing else i have ever heard pushes my buttons the way they do, when paying the music i like.

Did you ever try an OTL amp on the electrostatic panels? There was a company in the Netherlands that made a high voltage direct drive amp for electrostatic speakers similar to the old Acoustat Servocharge amps. All electrostatic speakers sound better without transformers.

 

[Mr. Miyagi]

Did you ever try an OTL amp on the electrostatic panels? There was a company in the Netherlands that made a high voltage direct drive amp for electrostatic speakers similar to the old Acoustat Servocharge amps. All electrostatic speakers sound better without transformers.

Question; they why don’t clarisys and Alsyvox only go to shows with OTL amp providers?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Question; they why don’t clarisys and Alsyvox only go to shows with OTL amp providers?

For one thing neither Alsyvox nor Clarisys is an electrostatic loudspeaker.

 

[Kcin]

Did you ever try an OTL amp on the electrostatic panels? There was a company in the Netherlands that made a high voltage direct drive amp for electrostatic speakers similar to the old Acoustat Servocharge amps. All electrostatic speakers sound better without transformers.

A small point. You need a direct drive amp for electrostatics to realize the charge the stators need (+/- )a direct drive amp is a "form" of OTL

OTLs as we mostly know them parallel tubes to get to the typical impedance of standard speakers, say 4-16 ohms whereas direct drive work off thousands of volts on the plates to provide the stators they serve with the polarizing voltage they need- eliminating the step up transformer.

If we use regular tube amps on electrostatics we typically have step down transformers on the amps with step up transformers on the panels resulting in what can be a real loss in finesse, resolution and slam.

I would hazard a guess that if @Lagonda tossed his step up transformers and MBLs for his ML Statements with a direct drive OTL he would plotz and never look back.

For the past 12 or 13 years I have been messing with direct drive amps and with the Acoustat servo charge amps a long time before that.

Once you get rid of that lossy step up transformer you are liberated in ways you can not imagine.

I eventually made a direct drive amp for the Beveridge model IIIs which had a traditional step up transformer in them +/- 1600v 3.2kV full swing.

Wow what an experience. Due to that experience , have been pulling out what's left of my hair on reworking a pair of original Beveridge Model IIs and re-designed the boards with newly designed power transformers - these are pretty lethal but the dynamic expression is really un-comparable to any transformer coupled electrostatic


The commercial company is:

Mono OTL - Twinstatic Audio

Mono OTL direct drive amplifier for ESL loudspeakers Spin-off from the Acoustat upgrade is a complete new mono direct drive amp, based upon the Acoustat Servo-charge Amp + upgrade. The amplifier is build in a 19” inch rack with handles. The special low capacitance cable to your ESL-speaker...

twinstaticaudio.nl

 

[PeterA]

The only preamp I know of that has a phase switch is the Harmon Kardon Citation 1. In the Citation 1 the phase is inverted in one channel only when the switch is operated.

Here is another one Ralph:

 

[Lagonda]

Did you ever try an OTL amp on the electrostatic panels? There was a company in the Netherlands that made a high voltage direct drive amp for electrostatic speakers similar to the old Acoustat Servocharge amps. All electrostatic speakers sound better without transformers.

I have heard Atmasphere on modern Quads and Soundlab without being blown away, nothing special, preferred smaller MBL SS in that system. Never heard a transformerless electrostatic setup, i have always liked the rhythmical drive and bass control of good SS compared to tubes. I don't listen to classical music at all, i like music with rhythm, drums and bass. And no chamber- pot music for me either.

 

[PeterA]

I have heard Atmasphere on modern Quads and Soundlab without being blown away, nothing special, preferred smaller MBL SS in that system. Never heard a transformerless electrostatic setup, i have always liked the rhythmical drive and bass control of good SS compared to tubes. I don't listen to classical music at all, i like music with rhythm, drums and bass. And no chamber- pot music for me either.

Get your motor runnin'
Head out on the highway
Looking for adventure
In whatever comes our way

 

[Audiohertz2]

Here is another one Ralph:

View attachment 141342

Phase Switches are not uncommon at all , well not on vintage pre ‘s anyway ..

 

[Audiohertz2]

A small point. You need a direct drive amp for electrostatics to realize the charge the stators need (+/- )a direct drive amp is a "form" of OTL

OTLs as we mostly know them parallel tubes to get to the typical impedance of standard speakers, say 4-16 ohms whereas direct drive work off thousands of volts on the plates to provide the stators they serve with the polarizing voltage they need- eliminating the step up transformer.

If we use regular tube amps on electrostatics we typically have step down transformers on the amps with step up transformers on the panels resulting in what can be a real loss in finesse, resolution and slam.

I would hazard a guess that if @Lagonda tossed his step up transformers and MBLs for his ML Statements with a direct drive OTL he would plotz and never look back.

For the past 12 or 13 years I have been messing with direct drive amps and with the Acoustat servo charge amps a long time before that.

Once you get rid of that lossy step up transformer you are liberated in ways you can not imagine.

I eventually made a direct drive amp for the Beveridge model IIIs which had a traditional step up transformer in them +/- 1600v 3.2kV full swing.

Wow what an experience. Due to that experience , have been pulling out what's left of my hair on reworking a pair of original Beveridge Model IIs and re-designed the boards with newly designed power transformers - these are pretty lethal but the dynamic expression is really un-comparable to any transformer coupled electrostatic


The commercial company is:

Mono OTL - Twinstatic Audio

Mono OTL direct drive amplifier for ESL loudspeakers Spin-off from the Acoustat upgrade is a complete new mono direct drive amp, based upon the Acoustat Servo-charge Amp + upgrade. The amplifier is build in a 19” inch rack with handles. The special low capacitance cable to your ESL-speaker...

twinstaticaudio.nl

Bigfoot for sure ...!

 

[morricab]

Question; they why don’t clarisys and Alsyvox only go to shows with OTL amp providers?

THey are not electrostatic speakers...however, OTLs would work quite well if the impedance of the planar magnetic speaker is not too low, because the impedance of a planar magnetic speakers is usually pretty uniform.