Natural Sound

[cal3713]

Are you okay with a a table saw or tracksaw and basic joinery? If so you could add one or 2 Jensen Imperials with double 15s used as this sub channel. Beware that will shake the guts out of you lol.

Alternative - Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba - various models.

Super spendy (and lazy choice - buy a Pulse from Tune Audio.

You got me to look up the Jensen Imperials. Quite the image used for marketing here! https://www.decware.com/imperial.htm

 

[Audiophile Bill]

You got me to look up the Jensen Imperials. Quite the image used for marketing here! https://www.decware.com/imperial.htm

Ha they are beasts with a pair of 15s with sufficiently low fs.

I have the plans - still haven’t made some for myself but will do so.

 

[KeithR]

Not sure where you get your information from Keith but it’s all wrong, Maxx wasn’t even a speaker in Wilson’s line when ML2 was designed back in Russia and Vladimir never designed any of his electronics based on charachter of any speaker his designs are based on his EAR model. If you ever visited Lamm back then you’ll find a pair of Kharma Audiocritiques in the listening space and not a single Wilson speaker anywhere in the building.

No argument about Lamm electronics making Wilsons sing as they do with any other speaker. I owned Watt Puppys and the X1 before I ever knew anything about Lamm, they only sounded harsh with certain popular ss electronics of the 90’s never with any of the tube gear we used at the time. Also Wilson was a successful international brand long before Vladimir made it to the US, I guess people loved harsh sounding speakers!

david

I stand corrected - just recall reading that somewhere (maybe mickelson) and back in the aughts that he owned Wilsons (I believe you said more recently still owns Maxx 3). I actually met Vladimir and Elina at CES way back then showing W/P 7s. It's fair to say his electronics work with Wilson and he enjoys the pairing personally.

The W/P and Maxx sounded poor for a number of reasons (notable incoherency being a big one). I'm really surprised you ever liked or got good sound out of them.

 

[ddk]

I stand corrected - just recall reading that somewhere (maybe mickelson) and back in the aughts that he owned Wilsons (I believe you said more recently still owns Maxx 3). I actually met Vladimir and Elina at CES way back then showing W/P 7s. It's fair to say his electronics work with Wilson and he enjoys the pairing personally.

The W/P and Maxx sounded poor for a number of reasons (notable incoherency being a big one). I'm really surprised you ever liked or got good sound out of them.

We've (a whole bunch of us!) strayed way off topic in this thread so this would be my last off topic comment here. We did dozens of audio exhibitions in the last 30 years both US and abroad. The rooms always had rave reviews but in all those years only once was I personally satisfied with the overall sound, for that show we actually built a room from scratch inside a larger space and we had no other exhibiting partners to deal with. For the most part room partnerships are financial and/or strategic not necessarily pairing with people or components we like or will ever want to own. There's also a novelty factor that we need to consider, we have to change partnering manufacturers to keep people's interest visiting our rooms and specifically avoiding the type of inaccurate claims mentioned here regarding dark sounding electronics pairing with bright sounding speakers for balance when both brands regularly exhibited with others with no mention of darkness. The only thing shows are good for is some light tire kicking and meet and greet, only on very rare occasions one might make an actual discovery.

david

 

[christoph]

Are you okay with a a table saw or tracksaw and basic joinery? If so you could add one or 2 Jensen Imperials with double 15s used as this sub channel. Beware that will shake the guts out of you lol.

Alternative - Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba - various models.

Super spendy (and lazy choice - buy a Pulse from Tune Audio.

Thanks.
Will have to do some research tomorrow

 

[microstrip]

I've gone round n round with myself over the 'dark' characterization. I agree that some will use that word upon first hearing Lamm gear and I can understand that as a first reaction. But the more I thought about it the more I've concluded that 'dark' is not entirely apt.

Sometimes when puzzling over word choice I consider the antonym - does the opposite make sense in terms of what I'm trying to convey?

Here's what I wrote of the M1.2 in my 2015 review:

Some find the overall sound of the M1.2 as slightly dark; and by contrast with certain amps there is that relative difference. I found the M1.2s sounding whole within themselves, and from the perspective of their overall presentation, music teemed with harmonic information, with the antonym of their tonality being not light but lean. Overall frequency balance lacked discontinuity; there was no coming forward or peakiness from the likes of sopranos or trumpets, and no midbass enhancement.

I feel that when compared with the ML3 the M1.2 sounds "dark". I use the word

(...)

No argument about Lamm electronics making Wilsons sing as they do with any other speaker. I owned Watt Puppys and the X1 before I ever knew anything about Lamm, they only sounded harsh with certain popular ss electronics of the 90’s never with any of the tube gear we used at the time. Also Wilson was a successful international brand long before Vladimir made it to the US, I guess people loved harsh sounding speakers!

david

David,

I take your word, but when I extensively researched the Lamm's I found that in the 2010's this was not the opinion of Vladimir Lamm. In interviews he expressively reported his admiration for the Wilson speakers and his endorsement for the Lamm/Wilson pairing.

BTW, in general, Wilson speakers only sound harsh when poorly matched, independently of quality and price of the equipment. Surely every manufacturer with a large production of models along a long time always have some less successful or preferred designs - I did not like all Wilson Audio speakers.

 

[microstrip]

(...) The rooms always had rave reviews but in all those years only once was I personally satisfied with the overall sound, for that show we actually built a room from scratch inside a larger space and we had no other exhibiting partners to deal with. (...)

david

Are you referring to the exhibition with the Bionor's in the CES 2003?

 

[ddk]

Are you referring to the exhibition with the Bionor's in the CES 2003?

Yes.
david

 

[ddk]

I feel that when compared with the ML3 the M1.2 sounds "dark". I use the word


David,

I take your word, but when I extensively researched the Lamm's I found that in the 2010's this was not the opinion of Vladimir Lamm. In interviews he expressively reported his admiration for the Wilson speakers and his endorsement for the Lamm/Wilson pairing.

BTW, in general, Wilson speakers only sound harsh when poorly matched, independently of quality and price of the equipment. Surely every manufacturer with a large production of models along a long time always have some less successful or preferred designs - I did not like all Wilson Audio speakers.

That was my point Francisco, the pairing wasn't to balance harshness with darkness there was genuine mutual admiration between the two men.

david

 

[PeterA]

Gentlemen, could we please discuss cables and amp/speaker pairings irrelevant to my new system on some other thread and stay focused on the topic of this virtual system thread? Thank you.

 

[BruceD]

My apologies, I got the information from the Lamm site. See
https://lammindustries.com/homepages/show-reports-ces-2003/

Indeed I've used the same Stereovox loom for the last 10 years--the purest cleanest transfer of musical sonics I've experienced !

Apologises to PeterA and his superb system---back to thread topic lads!

BruceD

 

[ACHiPo]

Classic Audio Reproductions builds a very nice Hartsfield reproduction with original drivers but he adds a super tweeter.

I would like to hear these one day.

 

[ACHiPo]

Peter,
Congratulations on the huge (and successful) leap you made with your system.

 

[rando]

Gentlemen, could we please discuss cables and amp/speaker pairings irrelevant to my new system on some other thread and stay focused on the topic of this virtual system thread? Thank you.

Peter, is there any chance of a system video to get a feeling for some of the sonic changes that have occurred? I didn't wish to preempt any structured development you had for this system thread or I would've asked a few pages previous.

 

[PeterA]

Peter,
Congratulations on the huge (and successful) leap you made with your system.

Thank you very much. I had an old friend stop by today who actually bought my SME turntable. He helped me pack up my Magico Q3s for shipment tomorrow and we listened to the new system.

He really liked it and said this system is now all about the music and experiencing it holistically and not about sonic attributes. He got the shift immediately.

The cabinet maker stopped by later in the afternoon to discuss final details because he got the materials and wants to start building it. He’s a bass player on the side and wanted to listen to the new system. He said the old system one could just listen to. The new system sounds like music and he could feel the low frequencies like in a live event. He was astonished that the speakers are 60 years old. We had a great time and I am excited that he will have a hand in putting together the final piece by building the new rack for me.

 

[DaveC]

Congrats Peter!

While we haven't agreed on everything in the past, horns, SETs and 15" woofers are certainly something we can agree on. Happy listening!

 

[tima]

For every high sensitivity horn speaker amplifier question, my answer always is Viva Aurora, Absolare SET and Lamm SET.

I thought it very interesting that in his review of the Lamm ML2.2, R.Harley emphasized that the unit did not sound like a SET amplifier. Maybe this is just an 'angle' for his review, but perhaps not.

"The highest praise I can give the Lamm ML2.2 is that it doesn’t sound like a single-ended-triode amplifier.

"I started this review by stating that the ML2.2 doesn’t sound like an SET. If I brought an experienced listener into my room blindfolded and played a wide range of music for a couple hours, that listener would never be able to identify the amplification as single-ended triode. For starters, the ML2.2 has an absolutely luscious rendering of tone color, yet it never crosses the line into a syrupy romanticism that would soon grow tiresome. The amplifier lacks the typical SET signature of an overly warm and ripe midband that directs the musical focus to certain instruments. And then there’s the bass, the Achilles’ Heel of SET. The ML2.2’s bottom-end extension, control, dynamics, and articulation wouldn’t be mistaken for a solid-state dreadnought design, but neither would you think that this 18W SET could deliver the kind of bass control and dynamic drive it exhibited...

"The ML2.2 is so natural, organic, and musically right—and so greatly minimizes an SET’s traditional shortcomings—that the amplifier caused me to question the modern paradigm of highpowered solid-state amplification" [my emphasis]

His characterization, written in 2013, may put off today's SET-centric owners [debate elsewhere], but I thought if Harley was saying the ML2.2 sonics are balanced and neutral he is capturing some of the Lamm character.

Lamm ML2.2 Single-Ended Triode Amplifier - The Absolute Sound

Lamm ML2.2 Single-Ended Triode Amplifier -

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[bonzo75]

Just shows that R Harley has poor experience with SETs. The sound he describes comes from poor SETs and valves, or trying to drive a speaker that the SET is not suited to (flabby bass)

 

[the sound of Tao]

Just shows that R Harley has poor experience with SETs. The sound he describes comes from poor SETs and valves, or trying to drive a speaker that the SET is not suited to (flabby bass)

I think its plainly just a case of stereotyping...

 

[morricab]

I think its plainly just a case of stereotyping...

Yes, makes me wonder if he had ever actually heard a good SET before...