New 468 monos
- Thread starter Kingsrule
- Start date
Im NOT sure Micro would agree to
that
Probably it would not be a problem if I was not currently trying to sell the Lamm ML3 and LL1!
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thanks Lloyd, i also see this as a big deal to me. there are not many other steps i can take for whole system improvements.
my 468's are pure stock, no added dedicated ground post. so yes; i will attach my Tripoint ground wires to the same spot as on the 458's; with the same screw and nut doohickey. if you look closely in the picture, those little contraptions are sitting on my baseboard shelf next to the red tower thingies.
Congrats Mike. Your decision to upgrade has not been something easy after a long road with 458's, neverthless audiophiles are restless men, we can't resist in stop mode for a long period.
I'm curious since specifications between the two models are different in terms of power vs. load; this reveals that something has been modified by Herve' Deletraz in the circuit devolved to send Watts to speaker.
Your ears will give the final answer!
Marco
I'm curious since specifications between the two models are different in terms of power vs. load; this reveals that something has been modified by Herve' Deletraz in the circuit devolved to send Watts to speaker.
Your ears will give the final answer!
Marco
Got it...makes sense. I wonder if the manufacturer would be willing to do that for you? I cannot imagine any of this would negate warranty...further, presume there might be some marginal benefit if they did it for you?
i originally used that screw choice in the 458's from asking Herve about it, and he pointed me to it as the likely best choice. as i recall he said with the design there would be no one ideal place for a ground post. exactly what that means i'm not sure. i much appreciated that he did help me and did not just dismiss it. (Kevin Malmgren, the Evolution Acoustics designer, gave me similar advice for the bass amp grounding).
in any case, my sense is to not push Herve to have to think about it (actually installing a ground post) too much. i imagine he might be torn between compromising his masterpiece or telling me no. did not want to do that. he knew my intentions from before and did not offer it..
Mike~!!!!!!!!
Congratulations~!!!
Your system is perfect more and more~!
GREAT~!!
Congratulations~!!!
Your system is perfect more and more~!
GREAT~!!
While it’s part of your system, I’d be interested in hearing what you think of 108 in comparison to the 458s. I know you had one before but now you have years of experience with the monoblocks for reference.
honestly i was not in the market for different amplifiers as my 458's were fully satisfying. even when the 468 was introduced my push for them was not strong. i was happy. reading the review did push me some and in my mind i figured i should do it at some point and it became a 'thing' to plan on. then when my dealer had a buyer for mine i finally decided to do it. i would not be without amps for 2 months and would have anew pair.
i've done plenty of 'audio-nervosa' type moves. this one was not that.
understand i have not yet heard the 468. if i had then i'm sure my senses would have me foaming at the mouth.
agree that the listening will be the proof.
458 and 468 have similar but not the same power ratings. but any power difference is a purely academic concept in my system with 97db efficient, 7 ohm easy-peasy speakers to drive.
in Herve's manufacturer's comments to the Fremer review he makes the point that Atkinson's measurements were mostly the same he get's in his labs, and that........
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listening to the series '1' 108's these last 2 weeks 'musically' i mostly forget the 458's are not here. in my most focused moments i hear a difference, and certainly scale and grip are different. the 108 does get the perfect amp situation for it in my system; easy speaker load with no deep bass requirement, the Equi=tech AC grid purity, sits on the Tana active shelf, and fed by the 50 ohm zeel interconnects.
objectively; i'm missing things in degrees of 'see into' and 'dynamic suddenness', and the uber harmonic and textural refinement and that sense of presence is not quite the same. OTOH there is the same musical purity and lack of any sense of electronics or reproduction chain.
i've consciously not played big music with the 108, so there is that. but the 108 is not just a 'fill in'......it's terrific.
Totally get that. Regarding location of grounding post...that is interesting. If grounding in theory means one connection point 'touches all', then perhaps the entire construction of the 468s is not physically 100% interlinked from a grounding perspective?
The NHB468 should be a very different amplifier from the NHB458 in a subjective positive sense
- its measurements are "worst" than those of the 458, looking more "tube-like"! Comparing the measurements of the amplifiers we could think that they were coming from different manufacturers - in some sense the NHB468 moves towards the old NHB 108 paradigma. Even the noise spectra show that the NHB468 has a background bottom line 15dB higher than the NHB 458, and worst signal to noise ratios. I always felt that the NHB 458 was too analytical compared with the NHB 108 that I owned for a longtime - I should probably avoid listening to the new NHB 468, it is currrently out of my reach. I am sure that Mike will have a lot to report!
The NHB468 should be a very different amplifier from the NHB458 in a subjective positive sense
I always felt that the NHB 458 was too analytical compared with the NHB 108 that I owned for a longtime - I should probably avoid listening to the new NHB 468, it is currrently out of my reach. I am sure that Mike will have a lot to report!
that's how it's been related to me by owners i know. more see into and walk around type sound. and 'just the right amount' more of that stuff.
I am, as always, impressed with the knowledge and hands on experience ofThe NHB468 should be a very different amplifier from the NHB458 in a subjective positive sense
I always felt that the NHB 458 was too analytical compared with the NHB 108 that I owned for a longtime - I should probably avoid listening to the new NHB 468, it is currrently out of my reach. I am sure that Mike will have a lot to report!
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you and Mike. You guys and your descriptions are the closest that some of
us get to hearing a lot of this gear. I just don’t trust Fremer and his agenda
as much as you
understand i have not yet heard the 468. if i had then i'm sure my senses would have me foaming at the mouth.
Hi MikeL,
so you decided to switch to the 468 only by the review of Michael Fremer and the confidence in the outstanding skills of Hervé?!? You did not hear them before.
What were the main areas where you expect a big step forward through your purchase of the 468?
fair questions. i've sort of answered these in parts before; but now this is fresh so let's go here.
first; no.....not yet heard 468's with my own ears.
in the bigger picture, i expected at some point i would do the 458->468 upgrade......but other things seemed to always capture my system building attention and occupy my asset allocation. it was a back burner inevitable type thing. i had feedback from listeners about what they thought after getting their upgraded 468's, but no one had the two in system side by side. then the Fremer review who did have both together which defined more clearly differences since he did have both together for an extended back and forth and back. so it was very helpful.
which pushed this idea from 'someday' to 'next in line when i could'. and i started to get revved up for it.
then my dealer called to say he had a buyer for my amps now. and i tipped over.
i've bought a number of items unseen and unheard. and mostly they have been home runs. my Kharma Exquisites and my Rockport Sirius III come to mind. both were somewhat from a review, one from Fremer. in this case, i was living with the 458's.
as far as what i expect to hear, mostly a slightly more fleshed out and holographic sort of presentation. but in the style of darTZeel where the minimalist approach will avoid any sort of sameness. just a deeper level of musical nuance. and some of it will be more of that ultra purity of the 108, which has been unique in that attribute to that same degree. and hopefully digs deeper in the bass, and dynamics.
i'll try to relate what i hear when they land.
I am, as always, impressed with the knowledge and hands on experience of
you and Mike. You guys and your descriptions are the closest that some of
us get to hearing a lot of this gear. I just don’t trust Fremer and his agenda
as much as you
Fremer is a data point. if his feedback did not fit with my other data points i'd view it differently. we have both owned the 458's and 18NS for many years. on this subject i'm pretty in line with him, and can relate to how he compares other amps to the 458. so it's familiar ground to me.
hey; the last time i interacted with Fremer he called me a liar.
what's not to like with that?
