New Playback Designs Dream Series DAC and Digital Transport

[bmoura]

Playback Designs has announced their new Dream Series products which include the MPD-8 DAC with Quad DSD playback ($22,000) and the MPT-8 Digital Music Transport ($14,000 - $22,000) which brings CD and SACD disc playback along with an optional music server to the Dream Series products.

The new Dream Series products will be shown in prototype form at the upcoming AXPONA and High End Munich audio shows in April and May 2017.

http://positive-feedback.com/industry-news/playback-designs-dream-series-quad-dsd-dac-transport/

 

[Bruce B]

Wow.... Andreas has gone and done it this time. Anyone need a kidney??

 

[steve williams]

I wonder if you can keep your MPS-5 and just buy the DAC

I like the fact that it plays everything in its native format

 

[steve williams]

I just got off the phone with Andreas

The new units should be available by end of this year as he has another prototype to work through. The new transport is designed from the ground up and meant to be more reliable than the MPS-5 (I have never had a problem with mine in all the years I have owned it). So yes the new upcoming DAC will still integrate with the MPS-5

The new DAC will have the USB X3 box inside but the external USB X3 box can also be used as there is a bypass switch on the DAC so that the external box can be used. Using the external box decouples all computing chores from the DAC and improves the sound he said

I spoke to Andreas about the Nagra HD DAC (which he designed) and he said he is presently working on a similar external box to make the Nagra HD a quad DSD DAC. When I told him that I liked the Nagra-HD DAC he commented that his new up coming DAC will outperform the Nagra (I felt that was a pretty bold statement but if true then Andreas will have a winner on his hands IMHO

His new DAC plays all formats in native and does no up converting whatsoever such as to DXD as he feels listening native is best

After everything that I have read here recently and now with my discussion with Andreas today I feel that almost certainly this is the way that I am going to go especially since Andreas, who developed the DAC for the Nagra-HD, states that his new DAC will outperform the Nagra-HD

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The new DAC will have the USB X3 box inside but the external USB X3 box can also be used as there is a bypass switch on the DAC so that the external box can be used. Using the external box decouples all computing chores from the DAC and improves the sound he said

It will also permit you to use 3 DACs for multichannel.

 

[steve williams]

It will also permit you to use 3 DACs for multichannel.

I know

I have that feature now on my USB X3 box

 

[Sa-dono]

His new DAC plays all formats in native and does no up converting whatsoever such as to DXD as he feels listening native is best

Is that true for even Redbook CD? And will there be more analog filtering? I don't agree that native is the way to go, but will delay judgement until I can hear this DAC.

 

[wisnon]

I just got off the phone with Andreas

The new units should be available by end of this year as he has another prototype to work through. The new transport is designed from the ground up and meant to be more reliable than the MPS-5 (I have never had a problem with mine in all the years I have owned it). So yes the new upcoming DAC will still integrate with the MPS-5

The new DAC will have the USB X3 box inside but the external USB X3 box can also be used as there is a bypass switch on the DAC so that the external box can be used. Using the external box decouples all computing chores from the DAC and improves the sound he said

I spoke to Andreas about the Nagra HD DAC (which he designed) and he said he is presently working on a similar external box to make the Nagra HD a quad DSD DAC. When I told him that I liked the Nagra-HD DAC he commented that his new up coming DAC will outperform the Nagra (I felt that was a pretty bold statement but if true then Andreas will have a winner on his hands IMHO

His new DAC plays all formats in native and does no up converting whatsoever such as to DXD as he feels listening native is best

After everything that I have read here recently and now with my discussion with Andreas today I feel that almost certainly this is the way that I am going to go especially since Andreas, who developed the DAC for the Nagra-HD, states that his new DAC will outperform the Nagra-HD

Glad he now sees the wisdom of native rate playback. You still may not like a SS Dac better than the Nagra, which is tubed output stage...no matter the Superior digital section...

 

[steve williams]

Glad he now sees the wisdom of native rate playback. You still may not like a SS Dac better than the Nagra, which is tubed output stage...no matter the Superior digital section...

I totally agree. That tube output stage is special

 

[caesar]

I just got off the phone with Andreas

The new units should be available by end of this year as he has another prototype to work through. The new transport is designed from the ground up and meant to be more reliable than the MPS-5 (I have never had a problem with mine in all the years I have owned it). So yes the new upcoming DAC will still integrate with the MPS-5

The new DAC will have the USB X3 box inside but the external USB X3 box can also be used as there is a bypass switch on the DAC so that the external box can be used. Using the external box decouples all computing chores from the DAC and improves the sound he said

I spoke to Andreas about the Nagra HD DAC (which he designed) and he said he is presently working on a similar external box to make the Nagra HD a quad DSD DAC. When I told him that I liked the Nagra-HD DAC he commented that his new up coming DAC will outperform the Nagra (I felt that was a pretty bold statement but if true then Andreas will have a winner on his hands IMHO

His new DAC plays all formats in native and does no up converting whatsoever such as to DXD as he feels listening native is best

After everything that I have read here recently and now with my discussion with Andreas today I feel that almost certainly this is the way that I am going to go especially since Andreas, who developed the DAC for the Nagra-HD, states that his new DAC will outperform the Nagra-HD

Hi Steve,
Do you know where Mr. Koch stands on using a quality transport vs. a streamer? Is he redoing his transport because of convenience factors, or does he think that transport is musically better than the digital streamer route?

 

[steve williams]

Hi Steve,
Do you know where Mr. Koch stands on using a quality transport vs. a streamer? Is he redoing his transport because of convenience factors, or does he think that transport is musically better than the digital streamer route?

Andreas makes both

His Sonoma Series has the Syrah Music Server. He doesn't make a transport in the Sonoma Series,only the Classic Series and the soon to be released Dream Series

 

[steve williams]

I have always liked my Playback Designs MPS-5 and because of its ability to play SACD, I find that even with the rapidly changing pace of computer audio and digital files I just cannot part with the machine as I have a large SACD library.

In my discussions yesterday with Andreas he informed me that there is now an upgrade path for the unit to bring it to current SOTA standards by inserting a new clock.

5-SERIES HARDWARE UPGRADE AVAILABLE
This hardware upgrade replaces most of the clock generator circuitry on the digital board of the MPS-5 and MPD-5 products with new technology that offers much improved clock jitter performance. When combined with a software upgrade to version 027 or newer it will offer dramatic improvements in sonic performance, sound stage accuracy, low and high frequency consistency. Please inquire with your dealer for more details and how to get your product updated.




I asked Andreas if it is a FEMTO clock and he said

"The entire clock generator is replaced and the result is quite noticeable with more defined sound stage, more accurate bass and high frequencies"

"The technology is MEMS based and is very new. Femto clocks use Xtals, which are "old school" and less accurate than MEMS."


So for me the answer for now is very simple. I have decided to do the MPS-5 upgrade and will await the release of his Dream Series DAC which has the ability to play everything in its Native Format which I still feel empirically is best

 

[VPN]

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I have three questions for you:

1. You said "His new DAC plays all formats in native and does no up converting whatsoever such as to DXD as he feels listening native is best". Isn't the new DAC a native quad DSD? Shouldn't the dac first convert everything to DSD first? So if there is a redbook stream, I suppose it will not play in the native rate, but first upsample to quad DSD, right?

2. I have an MPS-5 with the first. USB-X. Did you hear a sonic improvement with the new USB-XIII box? If if was better, what did you hear as the improvement?

3. Do you know the price of the MPS-5 upgrade?

Thanks,

VPN

 

[steve williams]

The list price of the MPS-5 upgrade is $2K

Mine gets shipped back tomorrow. I planned my upgrade around Andreas being in town to do it. My window is the end of this month when he is back from Axpona but before Munich. It takes 2-3 day turnaround so I will have mine back before the end of the month. I was interested in Andreas response about his choice in clocks when he said it is MEMS based and that femto clocks are old technology

Makes sense what you say about PCM. I never had the original USB-X box, only the USB-Xll which allowed for 2X DSD and now the USB Xlll box which does quad DSD and also has the benefit of having its own separate power supply. As for hearing any sonic improvement, I cannot say that there is any other than the ability to do quad DSD as well as having an external power supply

 

[VPN]

Hello Steve,

Thank you! Good luck with the MPS-5 upgrade!
Cheers,

VPN

 

[Elberoth]

"The technology is MEMS based and is very new. Femto clocks use Xtals, which are "old school" and less accurate than MEMS."

Interesting. I would like to see the phase noise numbers.

MEMS resonators suffer from phase noise, which limits their utility in digital audio applications (where ultra low phase noise is #1 requirement).

 

[microstrip]

Interesting. I would like to see the phase noise numbers.

MEMS resonators suffer from phase noise, which limits their utility in digital audio applications (where ultra low phase noise is #1 requirement).

I was looking for MEMS resonator characteristics yesterday and found this article : https://www.sitime.com/images/elite-platform/Elite-FAQ-rev1.5-11042016-media.pdf

But, as always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

 

[steve williams]

Interesting. I would like to see the phase noise numbers.

MEMS resonators suffer from phase noise, which limits their utility in digital audio applications (where ultra low phase noise is #1 requirement).

I was looking for MEMS resonator characteristics yesterday and found this article : MEMS resonators

But, as always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

Interesting thought Adam but I would be hard pressed to think Andreas would use anything in his components that would suffer from phase induced noise

 

[steve williams]

I just got off the phone with Andreas who tells me that all of his new components have MEMS resonators and he has zero concern about phase induced noise

 

[Elberoth]

I was looking for MEMS resonator characteristics yesterday and found this article : MEMS resonators

But, as always, the proof of the pudding is in the eating!

1. The link is broken.
2. It seems the pics shows XOs (crystal oscilators) not MEMS.

So far, all the papers I was able to finds show that XO have much lower phase noise than MEMS. Which makes sense, as MEMS oscillators utilize a Phase Locked Loop (PLL) design with a MEMS resonator being phase locked to a VCO in an M/N synthesizer loop. The phase noise level of the MEMS oscillators is the result of the combined effects of the PLL loop bandwidth, selectivity of the VCO, and Q of the primary resonator. The quartz resonator (XO) device is operating at the output frequency and does not have the added noise signals of the PLL in the output.

The higher levels of phase noise demonstrate that MEMS oscillators are not an equivalent technology. Current communications and data transmission applications will very likely have problems with jitter at the levels indicated in the Agilent test system.

http://www.pletronics.com/getfile.php?id=401

1. Phase noise and phase jitter
We considered three frequencies (40MHz, 100MHz and 156.25 MHz) and compared Crystal oscillators to MEMS oscillators of the same frequencies. The Laboratory measurements demonstrate that the phase noise is much better with the Crystal oscillator than the MEMS oscillator for all frequencies.

http://geyer-electronic.de/fileadmi...of_Crystal_Oscillator_and_MEMS_Oscillator.pdf

Anyway, I would like to learn Andreas Koch rationele for using MEMS.