New Wadax Atlantis Reference Dac
- Thread starter Stereophonic
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Of course not, Marc. He simply said at the beggining that he reviewed excellent DACs, such as Vivaldi or Berkeley Alpha Reference, but no specific or direct comparisons, just typical, useless TAS blurb.
Robert Harley (or every TAS writer) should learn from Srajan, who does several comparisons in every review despite the complex flowery language.
An interesting review, many of the general comments are worth reading, even if we can't consider the WADAX Reference. Although a review is just a data point, it suggests that another step stereo in sound reproduction is being climbed.
My main issue with the review is that is being carried with the XVX, and until now RH listened to other DACs with other speakers. When I listened to the WAMM's using the DCS Vivaldi stack, I could not stop thinking how better the DCS Vivaldi system could sound than what I listen at home, particularly with common CDs I know well. This was particularly noticed in liquidity of timbre and smoothness - two aspect that RH highlights.
Forgetting aspects depending on preference and the hyperbolic subjectives
, it is an excellent article, worth reading for its general comments and summary on digital subjective evolution. The Atlantis Reference DAC is designed and manufactured about six hundered miles from my location and is being demoed very close - but since these terrible covid days started I have canceled all traveling for audio purposes and collective listening sessions, listening has been postponed to future days.
A note worth commenting is the reported dependence of treble cohesion on the choice of output impedance, something I have also noticed with digital.
My main issue with the review is that is being carried with the XVX, and until now RH listened to other DACs with other speakers. When I listened to the WAMM's using the DCS Vivaldi stack, I could not stop thinking how better the DCS Vivaldi system could sound than what I listen at home, particularly with common CDs I know well. This was particularly noticed in liquidity of timbre and smoothness - two aspect that RH highlights.
Forgetting aspects depending on preference and the hyperbolic subjectives
, it is an excellent article, worth reading for its general comments and summary on digital subjective evolution. The Atlantis Reference DAC is designed and manufactured about six hundered miles from my location and is being demoed very close - but since these terrible covid days started I have canceled all traveling for audio purposes and collective listening sessions, listening has been postponed to future days.A note worth commenting is the reported dependence of treble cohesion on the choice of output impedance, something I have also noticed with digital.
I have been reading Robert Hartley since long, and I have listened to most of the components he has reviewed along the years regularly. Knowing his experience, preferences and style, I can't agree with your comments - it is a good, useful review that tells readers what they should care to listen when they listen to this particular equipment. Too enthusiastic? Yes, but it is the purpose of reviews - to persuade readers that this component in worth listening and bring some life to the review. BTW, different magazines and websites have different styles, why should RH learn from Srajan?
Surely if someone expects the emotion of a box fight he will be disappointed.
Quoting Britney Spears: "Oops, I did it again!"
I think you read "into" my comments too much and draw early conclusions which may make sense to your way of seeing things but are not entirely accurate in respect to what I wrote.
It's very simple, a review needs a context. Part of context of the Wadax DAC is the existence of it's competitors, such as the MSB Select II, DCS Vivaldi stack, etc, etc. Any DAC of this price (6 figures), of course is a revelatory experience compared to the "normal" high end stuff...to understand why it is so good (or bad, or normal) it must be listened alongside it's natural competitors. If not, then it's a listening session report, but not a professional review.
Not too different to the existence of weight classes in combat sports. In a oficial match (one that offers the world title, like a professional review of a DAC that aspires to be the best) you can't put a 300lb boxer to fight a 150lb one, as it is unfair.
Robert not only did not have the necessary hardware at hand, but also didn't bother commenting about other DACs he reviewed in comparison to Wadax.
Robert should learn a lot from Srajan Ebaen, for the following reasons:
- Srajan uses flowery language, but respectfully says why he doesn't like something.
- Srajan only reviews gear that he can compare to several different relevant alternatives, those that are in the same or very similar price ranges.
- Srajan rejects gear that he feels is uncapable to review accurately, be it for his system performance level or price disparity, this gear goes to other writers who have more appropiate systems and experience with gear of similar prices/performance class.
I take Robert's "review" as a casual listening report, because calling it review would be an insult to people who puts effort in doing his job correctly.
i did a quick read of the review and i expect that the Wadax Reference dac + Atlantis server is a formidable duo and makes great music. probably at the top level of any dacs. and my previous reservations about the way it looks were premature; the pictures in the review seem to put it in a better light.
so it's a really fine dac.
that said; the lack of any direct comparisons with another dac make this review a puff piece without much value for anyone looking to get the top level dac and trying to figure that out. Harley might have used vinyl or tape or.......something as a reference. instead, we have the typical cover story/Harley promo thing.
i'm no techie. but there are a few aspects of the design of my MSB Select II which i do value based on my experience. it's always hard to know whether these design things actually are what is delivering the goods. but i think they might. the MSB uses dac modules completely designed in house by MSB, instead of an off the shelf dac chip. and those dac modules develop enough drive on their own to eliminate the analog output stage. the Wadax does not take those same approaches.
as far as future proofing; it seems that the Wadax has that reasonably covered. as the card cages can be swapped. but it's not clear how serious a process that might be; with the MSB it's ridiculously easy for a customer to swap modules. and MSB has been aggressive on staying ahead of any interface issue. Wadax needs to make that case strongly to earn the faith it takes for that level of investment.
i think this is a "wet your appetite" sort of review, not one to base a purchase on. there is nothing to hang your hat on. i do look forward to some compares being related down the road......both for the Wadax Reference dac and the Atlantis server too.
so it's a really fine dac.
that said; the lack of any direct comparisons with another dac make this review a puff piece without much value for anyone looking to get the top level dac and trying to figure that out. Harley might have used vinyl or tape or.......something as a reference. instead, we have the typical cover story/Harley promo thing.
i'm no techie. but there are a few aspects of the design of my MSB Select II which i do value based on my experience. it's always hard to know whether these design things actually are what is delivering the goods. but i think they might. the MSB uses dac modules completely designed in house by MSB, instead of an off the shelf dac chip. and those dac modules develop enough drive on their own to eliminate the analog output stage. the Wadax does not take those same approaches.
as far as future proofing; it seems that the Wadax has that reasonably covered. as the card cages can be swapped. but it's not clear how serious a process that might be; with the MSB it's ridiculously easy for a customer to swap modules. and MSB has been aggressive on staying ahead of any interface issue. Wadax needs to make that case strongly to earn the faith it takes for that level of investment.
i think this is a "wet your appetite" sort of review, not one to base a purchase on. there is nothing to hang your hat on. i do look forward to some compares being related down the road......both for the Wadax Reference dac and the Atlantis server too.
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Wadax do a nice universal disc transport as well, for all those still devoted to their CDs, SACDs, BR and DVD Audio.
Completely agree with you except about the off the shelf DAC chip. Wadax uses a custom ASIC for DA conversion duties. ASIC chips are horribly expensive (4 to 5 figures depending on how "unique" they are, a semi custom solution can still cost several thousand euros per chip), much more than a FPGA or any off the shelf solution.
thanks.
and sorry for my limited techie ability to understand what i'm reading actually means. here is where it seemed to me they are basing the dac on an off-the-shelf dac chip;
did i miss interpret that?
You're welcome!
Not entirely, only one section of the DAC chip is used, but the rest of duties are performed by the ASIC, which has some very, very serious processing power.
And what does an ASIC bring to the party? Those things that the reviewer highlighted as better than any other dac he'd listened to?
Much faster, powerful processing capabilities than a FPGA.
ASIC vs. FPGA: What's the difference? | ASIC North Inc
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Basically, if you want to use the chip for a very specific application (ie: upsamping, feedforward/error correction, etc in the context of a DAC), there's no better choice in terms of performance. Also, ASIC chips can't be reprogrammed like FPGA.
Again, at this top level, such comparisons are unfair. They depend a lot on the system. It is why I valuate more the opinion of an experienced reviewer that I know pretty well than a fast A/B comparison. We are not in an ideal world where RH would live a year listening to the three top DACs to tell us the differences. The context of the review is given by his other reviews and comments since long.
And no, listening to these DACs is not a revelatory experience unless the system matches it - many people try DCS equipment and get another, sometimes from 150 or 75 lb. We have experience of it in this forum ...
Sorry you can't post on these matters without using the word "insult". IMHO the highend is an hobby of facts, preference and friendly discussion.
I will be short - tell me of any MSB Select II good and fair review comparing it to other top DACs.
Besides I fully disagree that tape or vinyl can be a reference to used as reference to compare DACs.
Very littlle. What really matters is how it sounds. It is like describing fine metallurgy and quantum physics in cables. But people love to know where their money goes.
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