New Wadax Atlantis Reference Dac

marmota

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Feb 3, 2016
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And no, listening to these DACs is not a revelatory experience unless the system matches it - many people try DCS equipment and get another, sometimes from 150 or 75 lb. We have experience of it in this forum ... :)
Esteemed Mr. microstrip:

I completely agree with this, with one caveat: I said this in my post, but you sir conveniently put it in a separate quote.

Sorry you can't post on these matters without using the word "insult". IMHO the highend is an hobby of facts, preference and friendly discussion.

Believe or not, I used it deliberately, because I knew you will misquote the post and bring the focus to the politically incorrect word ignoring the relevant information of the complete post...

You seem like a very intelligent, cultured individual who is really capable of mantaining an interesting conversation, but I'm afraid this back and forth misquoting tactics will lead both of us anywhere and probably create unwanted friction between us, two people with the same hobby, albeit with a different view of it. I think that, despite our differences, we are way better than this.

Please, feel free to PM me anytime, as we are neighbours (I live in Galicia), and really wouldn't want to have a bad relationship with a portuguese bro.

Best regards
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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I will be short - tell me of any MSB Select II good and fair review comparing it to other top DACs.
there are none. but lots of system compares and shootouts (and puff type review pieces without compares).

when Fremer reviewed the dCS Vivaldi (the last SOTA digital he has reviewed i think) in 2014 he borrowed a MSB Signature DAC IV so he could give readers a sense of relevance. if you gave Fremer this dac he would deliver some sort of usable compare for the reader to go by. it's his style and he never worries about any heat.

not so Harley.

we will wait for compares to happen.
Besides I fully disagree that tape or vinyl can be a reference to used as reference to compare DACs.
completely disagree. it's how i look at dacs exactly. other dacs are not my reference. not that a direct compare is not helpful, i've done plenty. how close can they fit into my listening? i've measured every source for 13 years against my tape (and vinyl) as it has been the constant reference.

i'd agree that for many it's not relevant.

it would simply have been helpful for some sort of direct compare in the review.
 
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nonesup

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Feb 16, 2017
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Very littlle. What really matters is how it sounds. It is like describing fine metallurgy and quantum physics in cables. But people love to know where their money goes.
Well I suppose that after the amount of programming man hours that your ASIC chip carries, Javier Guadalajara would not agree with you. Wadax hyper-processes the incoming signal, because that is their philosophy of Digital to Analogue conversion, as opposed to an R-2R processing like MSB.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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Esteemed Mr. microstrip:

I completely agree with this, with one caveat: I said this in my post, but you sir conveniently put it in a separate quote.



Believe or not, I used it deliberately, because I knew you will misquote the post and bring the focus to the politically incorrect word ignoring the relevant information of the complete post...

You seem like a very intelligent, cultured individual who is really capable of mantaining an interesting conversation, but I'm afraid this back and forth misquoting tactics will lead both of us anywhere and probably create unwanted friction between us, two people with the same hobby, albeit with a different view of it. I think that, despite our differences, we are way better than this.

Please, feel free to PM me anytime, as we are neighbours (I live in Galicia), and really wouldn't want to have a bad relationship with a portuguese bro.

Best regards
Sorry you are really misunderstand my intentions and are ignoring the main subject. Apologies if I quote in a careless way but I can't understand how a forum that is supposed to debate the high-end can systematically go in denigrating the reviewing industry and its members and even suggesting that reviewers should learn from others.

Personally I would like to discuss (agreeing or disagreeing) the contents of the review or its methods, not inflammatory comments on it and the magazine that publishes it. Just MHO, YMMV.
 
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Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
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Hi Micro.
If you live in Portugal you have an excellent opportunity to listen both Atlantis and Atlantis Reference Dac in Ultimate Audio.
They were MSB dealers. You can ask why doesn’t now ...;)
A6190701-2E71-49B6-85D5-C2C7D6E480EB.jpeg
 
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microstrip

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there are none. but lots of system compares and shootouts (and puff type review pieces without compares).
Mike,
Just my point. Just the usual system compares and shootouts where people say mostly about their hate and love experiences. We are discussing formal reviews.

when Fremer reviewed the dCS Vivaldi (the last SOTA digital he has reviewed i think) in 2014 he borrowed a MSB Signature DAC IV so he could give readers a sense of relevance. if you gave Fremer this dac he would deliver some sort of usable compare for the reader to go by. it's his style and he never worries about any heat.

not so Harley.

we will wait for compares to happen.

One example of seven years ago and even so, not exactly - from the MF review "With the MSB and Scarlatti systems no longer in my system, I couldn't perform direct comparisons. However, based on my aural memory, the Vivaldi's(...)

completely disagree. it's how i look at dacs exactly. other dacs are not my reference. not that a direct compare is not helpful, i've done plenty. how close can they fit into my listening? i've measured every source for 13 years against my tape (and vinyl) as it has been the constant reference.

i'd agree that for many it's not relevant.

it would simply have been helpful for some sort of direct compare in the review.

Mike, please note I am not addressing your particular case. You are an experienced audiophile with known preferences and biases, as all of us. Curiously I use tape as a reference for vinyl, but found that it is not possible to do the same with digital, as there is a lot of digital content that is not possible to get or even record with analog.

Yes, it would be nice to read some comparative comments, but not essencial.
 
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microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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Hi Micro.
If you live in Portugal you have an excellent opportunity to listen both Atlantis and Atlantis Reference Dac in Ultimate Audio.
They were MSB dealers. You can ask why doesn’t now ...;)
View attachment 74102
Thanks, I know about it - as I said in a previous post only my attitude towards covid has kept me away from listening to it. I have direct opinions of people having listened to both systems there, but I am not going to reproduce them in a forum.

Probably in different times I would have considered listening to it in my system - my VTLs came from this shop. ;)
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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Please, feel free to PM me anytime, as we are neighbours (I live in Galicia), and really wouldn't want to have a bad relationship with a portuguese bro.

Best regards
Bad relationships because of WBF discussions concerning an hobby? Never, particularly with someone from the region of the polbo à feira!
 
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Stereophonic

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2013
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Thanks, I know about it - as I said in a previous post only my attitude towards covid has kept me away from listening to it. I have direct opinions of people having listened to both systems there, but I am not going to reproduce them in a forum.

Probably in different times I would have considered listening to it in my system - my VTLs came from this shop. ;)
Keeping at home is very healthy these days... Good attitude.
I also have friends like you which owns Wadax. They did come from Esoteric, DCS and MSB.
But difference is i’m an Atlantis owner, so i can say directly how good it is far away from third opinions. ;)
 
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oldvinyl

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Jun 4, 2017
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Much faster, powerful processing capabilities than a FPGA.

Basically, if you want to use the chip for a very specific application (ie: upsamping, feedforward/error correction, etc in the context of a DAC), there's no better choice in terms of performance. Also, ASIC chips can't be reprogrammed like FPGA.
Actually - an ASIC can be designed with FLASH or even SRAM configuration cells. Also, an ASIC would likely include many registers that allow tuning and tweaking. There can be lookup tables for the algorithms applied, which can easily be updated (using internal FLASH memory or an external memory).

An FPGA is actually an ASIC too, the FPGA just gets mass production and a COTS part number. The benefit of the ASIC is that it can host the processor core, glue logic for the peripheral circuits, and even analog sections. Floor planning, layout rules and other techniques can help minimize noise and propagation delays (which are notoriously harder to control with an FPGA place and route). For performance, power reduction, and control of the design - an ASIC is a better choice than an FPGA.

An ASIC is only faster and has more processing capability than an FPGA - if that is what is in the design. These days, many FPGAs have IP cores in the fabric that can be instantiated in the design. The ASIC can also be hybrid - with analog circuits, which an FPGA does not have.

From the review it looks like all the digital front end processing is in the ASIC. The ASIC feeds the resultant digital word to a high-end TI D/A convertor. Seems that they have measured the end-end noise and other characteristics of the conversion and then "subtracted" them out from the digital data fed to the D/A convertor. Course correcting real-time.

And as mentioned, an ASIC is expensive - well over $1M for tapeout to samples. A minimum fabrication lot of 25 wafers could yield 100,000 die. The fab run can be split and shared with other designs - but it still means 10's of thousands of parts. A smaller fab run is possible - with of course higher costs.

I would love to hear this thing play some CDs and SACDs. That would be interesting.
 

CKKeung

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2011
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Audioexotics is actively promoting the Wadax Reference DAC.
There are 13 pages of reviews written by several reviewers in the current issue of AudioTechnique magazine in HK.

20210211_184526~2.jpg

Some of the photos showing its internal architecture are interesting :

20210211_184603~2.jpg
20210211_184737~2.jpg
 
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Elliot G.

Industry Expert
i like the Divin's, but what i heard from the big Gobel Epoque Reference in Elliot's room in South Florida was an easy cut above the Divin's. OTOH that was much better from that speaker than what i heard at RMAF. so maybe the Epoque's are less tolerant of a marginal/show set-up than the Divin's which would make perfect sense.
THE SECRET SAUCE is always the system and the set up. I can make good sound at a show I can make great sound in my room when I have the time and more tools available. Oliver makes great speakers and of course not everyone likes the same things. I have both so I guess I am fortunate!
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
I am ordering a Wadax reference set up. I have owned the CH Precision C1.1 mono with three X-1 's and a T1 clock. I have decided to sell it and get something else. I have heard the dCS Vivaldi stack, the MSB Select 2 with power bases, the Total Dac system all either with my gear or in other top of the line systems. I have heard the Atlantis with our speakers over a few days in Munich and the Reference Wadax in Munich as well ( albeit with other gear) but it has intrigued me enough to put my money where my mouth is. I do not believe in those displays in Munich that either speaker system was driven properly with the amplifiers chosen. I love the amps which I have heard a few times but that doesn't mean they are the right choice for a large room and either of the two loudspeakers in question.
My C 1.1 is available at a very good number to anyone interested, Sorry the clock is sold and leaving shortly. I believe in my heart that the Wadax is unique and it is the new standard by which all others will be measured. Time will tell :)
 

howiebrou

Well-Known Member
Jun 29, 2012
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I am ordering a Wadax reference set up. I have owned the CH Precision C1.1 mono with three X-1 's and a T1 clock. I have decided to sell it and get something else. I have heard the dCS Vivaldi stack, the MSB Select 2 with power bases, the Total Dac system all either with my gear or in other top of the line systems. I have heard the Atlantis with our speakers over a few days in Munich and the Reference Wadax in Munich as well ( albeit with other gear) but it has intrigued me enough to put my money where my mouth is. I do not believe in those displays in Munich that either speaker system was driven properly with the amplifiers chosen. I love the amps which I have heard a few times but that doesn't mean they are the right choice for a large room and either of the two loudspeakers in question.
My C 1.1 is available at a very good number to anyone interested, Sorry the clock is sold and leaving shortly. I believe in my heart that the Wadax is unique and it is the new standard by which all others will be measured. Time will tell :)
Elliot, congrats. Are you getting the Wadax Reference Server too as well as the dac?
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Elliot, congrats. Are you getting the Wadax Reference Server too as well as the dac?
Yes I am and I am really excited about it
 
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