+1,500,000 and that probably translates well to the overall cost if not more...a quick guess. This is beyond the pale of hi end. Congrats and enjoy Roysen. Hope your retired so you have time to enjoy all 3.
NHB-458 monoblock power amplifier
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+1,500,000 and that probably translates well to the overall cost if not more...a quick guess. This is beyond the pale of hi end. Congrats and enjoy Roysen. Hope your retired so you have time to enjoy all 3.
Roysen: I have a vague memory of some pictures of some of your gear. The Krell MRA, Goldmund Eidos Reference and some heavily modified reference Audio Physics loudspeakers? Didnt you have a blog or was it on some Scandinavian forum? Or was it a dream?
Roysen,
congrats on your quest for three world class systems. simply sitting back and thinking about pulling that off from a philisophical perspective is intimidating. i know how much energy and time it has taken to do one, to get it sorted out and singing.....and i'm not yet done. to imagine doing three and full justice to the potential of the gear involved is mind-boggleing.
obviously you have put a huge amount of time into the organizational/logisitical/planning support demands. i take my hat off to you to go down this road. i hope it takes you where you are wanting to go. make sure you allow for time to enjoy them.
congrats on your quest for three world class systems. simply sitting back and thinking about pulling that off from a philisophical perspective is intimidating. i know how much energy and time it has taken to do one, to get it sorted out and singing.....and i'm not yet done. to imagine doing three and full justice to the potential of the gear involved is mind-boggleing.
obviously you have put a huge amount of time into the organizational/logisitical/planning support demands. i take my hat off to you to go down this road. i hope it takes you where you are wanting to go. make sure you allow for time to enjoy them.
Same here to Moysen
Now Mike what do you mean you're not finished yet???? Honestly and this is some kind of saying it in jest but truly it is time to sit and listen to this (already) stupendously system of yours... I sincerely think that beyond this (and maybe a few subs ..he he he ) We are likely talking about flavors .. sideways moves, different but not better only different
Frantz,
when i say 'not finished yet' i mean i have ordered the MM7's and 458's, but they have not arrived yet. i have not lived with them and sorted them out and got them to perform their best. my last 8 years in my room has taught me well that the gear is only a starting place.....nothing more. it may look pretty in the room and listed on the blog but really becoming more than the sum of the parts takes some time and thoughtful care and setup......and some smarter people than myself to assist me. in my case, much of this work has been done as these new products have similar character to what they are replacing. i don't anticipate any big issues. but until they are in room i won't know where i am at exactly. i don't want to allow the ferver of my initial joy to keep me from making sure that all is as good as it can be.
and that is why i am so respectful of the efforts it will take Roysen to bring these three systems to the optimal point. case in point; i know what it took to supply power for my system, if i had to do that for three such systems i'm not sure i could even get that much amperage to my property. and if i could not get 300 amps+ service just for my 3 systems to my property how much compromise might that cause all those big amps and such? that is just one issue of many.
Hi Myles,
Well, I have a specific plan for best and cleanest power. The main breaker panel in our house has a main circuit breaker of 3x 80A at 240V. I have installed a split in the main breaker panel after the main breaker and the meter. One part of that split leads to the rest of the contents in the main breaker panel which include all the circuit breakers for the electricity to the entire property. On the other end of the split I have installed a cable with solid core copper conductors diameter size of 25 square millimeters. This cable is drawn around the outside of our house to where our living room is. Here the cable is terminated in a split with three outputs. Then from each output a similar cable leads to the back wall of each hifi system where each cable is terminated in a three phase Isoclean Zero Ohms breaker panel. In these breaker panels each component in the system has its seperate 32A circuit breaker. By each component I mean CD-player combination, SACD-player combination, DVD-Audio-player combination, Music Server combination, Turntable, Phono Preamplifier, Preamplifier and each monoblock. Short (2 meters) dedicated lines are installed from each circuit breaker to its single 32A Phillip Hauge A/C outlet. For the amplifier circuits, the cable used between the circuit breakers and the A/C outlets are the same cables used before the Isoclean Zero Ohms breaker panels with 25 square millimeters diameter solid core copper conductors. For the other circuits, the cable used between the circuit breakers and the A/C outlets is an in-wall silver conductor cable made by Oyaide with a special tripple sheilding. A seperate power conditioner is plugged into the A/C outlet on all non-amplifier circuits. So every non-amplifier component is plugged into its dedicated power conditioner.
So all three systems will share the same power supply since its not likely more than tops two systems will be playing at the same time.
A separate grounding solution from ATI Tectoniks similar to what Brian Ackerman of Audio Imports have installed will be installed while building the studio.
In the livingroom system Finite Elemente Emperor Active component stands will be used for all components.
In the Solid State system HRS MXR-M3X will be used for all components.
In the Tube system a mix of component stands and isolation products from Symposium Acoustics, Silent Running Audio, Copulare, Rix Rax, Critical Mass, Grand Prix Audio and AudioAV will be used.
As for signal carrying cables and power cords, these are not chosen yet. After everything else is installed I will start tryouts for cables. My initial thoughts run towards a mix of Siltech and Kharma in the living room system, a mix of Transparent Audio and MIT for the solid state system and a mix of Nordost and Purist Audio Design in the tube based system. This is how I will start my tryouts, however I will use a lot of time to find dedicated power and signal carrying cables for every component to sound its best. I also hope to find somewhere to use my Kimber Black Pearls.
Thanks,
Roysen
Well, I have a specific plan for best and cleanest power. The main breaker panel in our house has a main circuit breaker of 3x 80A at 240V. I have installed a split in the main breaker panel after the main breaker and the meter. One part of that split leads to the rest of the contents in the main breaker panel which include all the circuit breakers for the electricity to the entire property. On the other end of the split I have installed a cable with solid core copper conductors diameter size of 25 square millimeters. This cable is drawn around the outside of our house to where our living room is. Here the cable is terminated in a split with three outputs. Then from each output a similar cable leads to the back wall of each hifi system where each cable is terminated in a three phase Isoclean Zero Ohms breaker panel. In these breaker panels each component in the system has its seperate 32A circuit breaker. By each component I mean CD-player combination, SACD-player combination, DVD-Audio-player combination, Music Server combination, Turntable, Phono Preamplifier, Preamplifier and each monoblock. Short (2 meters) dedicated lines are installed from each circuit breaker to its single 32A Phillip Hauge A/C outlet. For the amplifier circuits, the cable used between the circuit breakers and the A/C outlets are the same cables used before the Isoclean Zero Ohms breaker panels with 25 square millimeters diameter solid core copper conductors. For the other circuits, the cable used between the circuit breakers and the A/C outlets is an in-wall silver conductor cable made by Oyaide with a special tripple sheilding. A seperate power conditioner is plugged into the A/C outlet on all non-amplifier circuits. So every non-amplifier component is plugged into its dedicated power conditioner.
So all three systems will share the same power supply since its not likely more than tops two systems will be playing at the same time.
A separate grounding solution from ATI Tectoniks similar to what Brian Ackerman of Audio Imports have installed will be installed while building the studio.
In the livingroom system Finite Elemente Emperor Active component stands will be used for all components.
In the Solid State system HRS MXR-M3X will be used for all components.
In the Tube system a mix of component stands and isolation products from Symposium Acoustics, Silent Running Audio, Copulare, Rix Rax, Critical Mass, Grand Prix Audio and AudioAV will be used.
As for signal carrying cables and power cords, these are not chosen yet. After everything else is installed I will start tryouts for cables. My initial thoughts run towards a mix of Siltech and Kharma in the living room system, a mix of Transparent Audio and MIT for the solid state system and a mix of Nordost and Purist Audio Design in the tube based system. This is how I will start my tryouts, however I will use a lot of time to find dedicated power and signal carrying cables for every component to sound its best. I also hope to find somewhere to use my Kimber Black Pearls.
Thanks,
Roysen
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You are correct. That was pictures taken in my home. The Audio Physic speakers will now be moved aside.
Thanks,
Roysen
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Yes, I have a pair of Audio Physic Kronos modified by Joachim Gerhard with a pair of the original Audio Physic Minos subwoofers in my home.
I also have a pair of original Audio Physic Cerubin (with its gigantic bass crossover/amplifier) and a pair of Audio Physic Medea Mk.II also modified with a design made by Joachim Gerhard with a pair of modified Audio Physic Terra subwoofers in my home.
Additionally I have a GamuT Audio S300, a pair of Mark Levinson No.33 (UHC version) and a Forsell The Statment amplifiers here which I have no use for in the future.
......or an idea just came to mind - maybe that could be the sound system for a home-theatre setup. How could I ideally set up three pairs of stereo speakers and two pairs of subwoofers in a home theatre? Hmmm I need to think about if I can make space for this in the new studio by building a basement under that new building.
Thanks,
Roysen
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Thanks, Mike.
Yes, this Is almost a full time occupation. Fortunatly I have a few years behind me as an audiophile where I have become friends with a lot of very knowledgable people who will assist me now. I know enough to be sure of the fact that I am very siriously limited in both knowledge and time to pull something like this off by myself while still expecting to get optimum results.
Thanks,
Roysen
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not trying to be negative, but if i'm reading your comments correctly (i may not be).....you will need more than 240 volts for your home, system inside your house, the extra building support, and then the 2 systems inside the extra building.
in my home i have 400 amp service and my own transformer at the street. after my meter i have have multiple panels, one of which is a 100 amp service for that runs to a sub-panel in my barn which runs HVAC lights and other dirty power oulets. then there is 70 amp service that runs to my Equi=tech transformer and panel in the barn for my system power grid. that leaves 230 volts for my home (including alarms Hot Tub, water feature, sauna, and everything else including Home Theatre inside the home).
in your case for three systems in two buildings you will likely need another 150-200 volts. unless 2 out of three systems are always powered down. most of those amplifiers you have choosen are quite power hungry and won't like any restrictions or cold start-up.
i did seriously consider those Isoclean panels; however, they are not UL approved so i decided to not go there.
maybe for Europe the way power is measured is totally different in which case ignore my math.
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those are some very effective and expensive racks and support systems. and one's i might choose myself. appropriate to the gear.
OTOH i've taken a different path that you might consider. i've found simple well made, reasonably priced grounded racks, and then treated each piece of gear with decoupling devices. these devices compete fully with the finest racks in performance, yet the cost is far less and the whole logistical challenge of matching racks to gear is eliminated.
another point is that when you have expensive racks that are 'systems', you cannot try new footers and such and know what is happening since you are combining suspension/decoupling systems.
i use Adona GXT racks with heavy multi-element granite platforms, although there are many good choices in a quality grounded rack. then i use Wave Kinetics A10-U8 footers under components. there are other products out there i'm sure are good too. of what i've tried the A10-U8's are best.
i have found that my new approach is much cheaper and simpler than the GPA system i was using, and better performing. i do like the elegance of a nude approach (gear sitting on a shelf without footers) but my problem was that the cost of upgrading a very expensive rack made even the idea of it prohibitive. try shipping a big rack. in some cases not even doable.
i know that if a better decoupling device comes along, i can (1) try it easily (2) replace what i have easily and at reasonable cost. inevitably these things get better over time.
before you invest in a bunch of expensive racks for these systems think about this alternative approach.
Hi Mike.
Thanks for your insight. This would be very interesting for me to continue discussing if you don't mind even though it is a little off topic.
I assume that you mean amperage in your post where you wrote volts. I also assume you operate on standard two phase (positive and negate leg + ground) 120V US circuits since most audio equipment sold in the US operate on 120V. In Europe we opeate on 240V.
I have a 3 phase (three active phases + ground) 80A main breaker in the main house. That provides 3x 80A because I have three combination of two phases available to provide power. That is a total of 240A divided on the three combination of phases. 240A on 240V provides a total of 57600W available. Your 400A on 120V gives 42000W total.
My assumption is that power hungry equipment in the house will not need to be used while playing music. In the new building only lighting and heating (winter only) / airconditioning (summer only) will require power except the audio system. It seems you have more need for power on non-audio related circuits than I do on my property. If we do a rough calculation and estimate that I need 20000W for non-audio use on the property while playing music (I don't think I need that much), I will have 37600W available for audio playback. You have 70A which is 8400W available for audio use if you opeate on two phase 120V. I have three systems which would be 37600W / 3 systems = about 12500W pr. system. It seems I will have more power hunry amplifiers than you. Maybe I should go for a three phase 100A main braker? What do you think?
The Isoclean breaker panels are not UL approved themselves but everything inside is UL approved.
In regards to component stands your approach might be less expensive and more effective, but in my scenario I prefer to choose solutions which I am sure are industry standards while avoiding all the time needed to try different feet and shelves for each component. I am afraid that would make this an impossibly timeconsuming task. Having said that I forgot to mention Adona which should have been included in the tube based system.
I could be wrong about my assumptions here. Please let me know.
Thanks,
Roysen
Thanks for your insight. This would be very interesting for me to continue discussing if you don't mind even though it is a little off topic.
I assume that you mean amperage in your post where you wrote volts. I also assume you operate on standard two phase (positive and negate leg + ground) 120V US circuits since most audio equipment sold in the US operate on 120V. In Europe we opeate on 240V.
I have a 3 phase (three active phases + ground) 80A main breaker in the main house. That provides 3x 80A because I have three combination of two phases available to provide power. That is a total of 240A divided on the three combination of phases. 240A on 240V provides a total of 57600W available. Your 400A on 120V gives 42000W total.
My assumption is that power hungry equipment in the house will not need to be used while playing music. In the new building only lighting and heating (winter only) / airconditioning (summer only) will require power except the audio system. It seems you have more need for power on non-audio related circuits than I do on my property. If we do a rough calculation and estimate that I need 20000W for non-audio use on the property while playing music (I don't think I need that much), I will have 37600W available for audio playback. You have 70A which is 8400W available for audio use if you opeate on two phase 120V. I have three systems which would be 37600W / 3 systems = about 12500W pr. system. It seems I will have more power hunry amplifiers than you. Maybe I should go for a three phase 100A main braker? What do you think?
The Isoclean breaker panels are not UL approved themselves but everything inside is UL approved.
In regards to component stands your approach might be less expensive and more effective, but in my scenario I prefer to choose solutions which I am sure are industry standards while avoiding all the time needed to try different feet and shelves for each component. I am afraid that would make this an impossibly timeconsuming task. Having said that I forgot to mention Adona which should have been included in the tube based system.
I could be wrong about my assumptions here. Please let me know.
Thanks,
Roysen
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Roysen,
Do you have experience with the Esoteric Line of Artesania Audio? They are manufactured in Spain and just got a rave review at 6 moons:
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/artesania/1.html
http://www.artesaniaaudio.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=759%3Aesoteric-family&catid=107&Itemid=129
I think their damper plate is excellent and rivals the HRS damper...might even better it. I am trialing two of them now, and the dealer is very impressed with the Esoteric Line which they have in-store and also have already setup for customers in their homes.
Thanks, they are new to me. I will check them out.
I also think this looks interesting (especially for the living room system): http://cybwiz.blogspot.no/2012/07/kaiser-panzerholz-equipment-stand.html?m=1
I really appriciate suggestions for improvements. A lot of what I have written is not set in stone yet.
Thanks,
Roysen
I also think this looks interesting (especially for the living room system): http://cybwiz.blogspot.no/2012/07/kaiser-panzerholz-equipment-stand.html?m=1
I really appriciate suggestions for improvements. A lot of what I have written is not set in stone yet.
Thanks,
Roysen
Thanks a lot for this link. I never heard about this manufacturer, but it seems very well engineered and looks gorgeous - just what I want for my room!
For some time I thought about having a turntable plinth manufactured from Panzerholz, but never got the time to go on with the project . (OK, as I love my Forsell, the motivation was not very strong).
Do you know that Panzerholz is used for shielding from neutrons in nuclear research and bullet shields? Our equipment will be well protected!
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