Objectivist or Subjectivist? Give Me a Break

[NorthStar]

My Mum, about a week ago, told me that cassette tapes* are coming back! ...I swear she did say that!

* But she mentioned a smaller size, very small. ...And people using a smaller type of walkman.
- I said to her; Mom, what are you talking about? ...But she wouldn't flinch for a second! She must have read it somewhere; I did not investigate any further, did anyone?

 

[rbbert]

It's been the subject of a number of articles (the comeback or persistence of the standard Compact Cassette), I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on WBF somewhere.

 

[NorthStar]

It's been the subject of a number of articles (the comeback or persistence of the standard Compact Cassette), I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on WBF somewhere.

See, I knew she was right; my Mom never lies to me. ...But then, I don't recall to ever discussed it here at WBF. ...Anyone?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

See, I knew she was right; my Mom never lies to me. ...But then, I don't recall to ever discussed it here at WBF. ...Anyone?

Probably decided they are superior to digital....

Tim

 

[Alan Sircom]

Well, as someone who actually owns all the Mastodon albums (except Remission which I have on Grooveshark), as well as James Blake's two albums and the XX's two albums - not to mention a lot of technical and progressive alt/metal (Meshuggah, Animals as Leaders, Slayer, Battles, et al), a lot of minimalist techno and avantgarde electronica (Monolake, Autechre, Pantha du Prince, Oval, etc), a lot of ambient and dark ambient (Thomas Koner, Lull, Tim Hecker) plus a lot of Beethoven, Coltrane, Jonny Cash, Diamanda Galas, Arvo Part, P.J. Harvey, Charles Lloyd, Bill Frisell, Chopin, and early Iron Maiden (the list goes on), I can say that personally, I believe it’s our brains that have the greatest influence over our enjoyment.

Unless I was the producer, mixer or mastering engineer then I have no part in how the sonics of an album are presented. The sonics of the above list of albums I own are… rather variable, to say the least. While I understand that many here may not listen to as broad a mix of musical genres as represented above, I’ve never ceased to be amazed at many who shun an album full of life-changing artistic intention and creative facility because the sonics fail to clear the high bar of audiophilia. Hence, I believe why shows and showrooms round the world are beset with Diana Krall albums and the latest and greatest re-re-remastered version of an album already owned on vinyl, then cassette, then digital compact cassette, then DAT, then CD, then the remastered CD, then the SACD, the DVD-A, then the high-rez download and finally back to the 180-gram half-speed mastered 45rpm vinyl.

I like stuff that’s not butchered by brick-wall limiting too. But I have no say on how much compression is added in tracking, mixing or mastering or a combination of all three. Even if the engineer had the skill and talent to ride the fader during tracking it’s still introducing artifacts between the artist and the listener.

So rather than build a system around a set of Platonic ideals that stifle my choice of music and format, I trained my brain to enjoy the greatest breadth and width of music irrespective of how it was engineered, mixed or mastered. It means I can enjoy the broadest collection of music available whether it be on vinyl, CD or streamed via Grooveshark. The system is secondary. Always.

With you 100% on this. And +1 internets for the music, too. That said, dark ambient is still a bit too much like listening to a ventilation system for me, without the excitement of the occasional gurgle.

 

[NorthStar]

Probably decided they are superior to digital....

Tim

She wouldn't know a thing about that. Mom used to be into analog LPs, now she's into BOSE radio.

The main point was the resurgence of the compact tape cassette music medium, but on a smaller size this time than the older standard size.
And she did mention 'Walkman' and not MP3 or iPod player.

...Just like the album (LP) with the turntable did. ...Some of my local audio stores have a dedicated 'albums' (LPs) section! Not second-hand stores, but the new modern audio stores!
I did not see those since the inception of the Charter of Rights! ...A very long time; that's what I meant.

Are we reinventing the wheel all over again; or just going in circles?

 

[MrAcoustat]

With you 100% on this. And +1 internets for the music, too. That said, dark ambient is still a bit too much like listening to a ventilation system for me, without the excitement of the occasional gurgle.

I love ambient on big speakers

 

[NorthStar]

Andre, you look like an angel close to those behemoth ambient 'clouds'. :b

 

[MrAcoustat]

Andre, you look like an angel close to those behemoth ambient 'clouds'. :b

I don't only look like an angel, i am an angel.

 

[NorthStar]

I don't only look like an angel, i am an angel.

Well, you live in a place surrounded by what/where angels would love to be surrounded by. ...The music reproducers, and the Music (Ambient New Age Music).

 

[Atmasphere]

Probably decided they are superior to digital....

Tim

I always thought so... They seem to hold up better in my truck too. Turns out that when it gets really hot in the car while its parked, any moisture that might have been causing tape shedding is chased out of the polymers by the heat. So I have cassettes in the truck that I was playing 30 years(!) ago and they still play fine.

Local bands sometimes like to put out cassettes as a sort of art project. I have a collection of cassettes that a local band gifted to me that were packaged in a hand made and painted wooden box; issued by a label in Switzerland. When they went on sale the entire run sold out in 2 hours on the internet. They are going on ebay for double the original sale price now. Go figure.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Besides, most Rock music lack sophistication, and clarity.
Classical Opera (& Chorales) on the other way/end is the human voice, with total control; the most emotional/musical instrument of them all.

You know I hate to disagree with you, but it's easy to find counterexamples. I'll take a pop tune by Queen, or Yes, or almost anything by Jeff Beck, over the bubblegum dreck Mozart wrote. Now, I know you said "most," so I guess I not really disagreeing too strongly. In your defense, just about zero pop music can equal the sophistication of Dvorak, Debussy, Chopin, ad infinitum.

--Ethan

 

[NorthStar]

It's fine Ethan. :b ...And that is exactly why I wrote "most" with an underline. ...Some Rock music I love fo shur; including Queen, Yes, Genesis, King Crimson, Jeff Beck (of course), Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Doors, The Rolling Stones, etc., when well recorded (remastered) and reproduced by a decent playback device (be it analog or/and digital; LP, CD/SACD). ...Cassette tapes? Nope. :b

"Bubblefgum dreck Mozart"?...Lol, still much more sophisticated and relaxing music than anything I just mentioned above. ...Just a different state-of-mind I guess, and also a different curve (musical evolution).

Pop music is not my 'pop' (bag) at all. ...Mariah Carey and the rest of the gang!

As for Dvorak, Debussy, Chopin; yeah, I'm in. ...Dvorak? You don't find him a little too "rocker" somehow?

To infinity and beyond ....

 

[Shaffer]

It's been the subject of a number of articles (the comeback or persistence of the standard Compact Cassette), I'm pretty sure we've discussed it on WBF somewhere.

We have; I started the thread. At this very moment I have 5 new cassettes sitting next to me. Just arrived today.

 

[NorthStar]

We have; I started the thread. At this very moment I have 5 new cassettes sitting next to me. Just arrived today.

Felix, would you have the amiability to provide the link please? :b

* Those 5 new cassettes; which ones are they?
And, what tape cassette deck are you using?

Last, are some of us here at WBF, and abroad, missing something important audio quality wise? :b

 

[Alan Sircom]

You know I hate to disagree with you, but it's easy to find counterexamples. I'll take a pop tune by Queen, or Yes, or almost anything by Jeff Beck, over the bubblegum dreck Mozart wrote. Now, I know you said "most," so I guess I not really disagreeing too strongly. In your defense, just about zero pop music can equal the sophistication of Dvorak, Debussy, Chopin, ad infinitum.

--Ethan

I agree entirely, although I'd say rock can periodically take the sophisticatometer needle off zero, but it's usually so self-defeating in terms of commercial success, the artistes either give up or go mainstream. Strangely, the ones that held true to the cause were often the bands that were around in that fertile late 1960s/early 1970s period (Frank Zappa, Captain Beefheart, King Crimson, etc).

There's some light at the end of this though; because Big Music has lost its grip over the music business, the off-chart unsigned/self-published world is looking really exciting right now. The whole business needs a Stravinsky and some chairs thrown around, though, and it isn't happening. Yet.

 

[Shaffer]

Felix, would you have the amiability to provide the link please? :b

* Those 5 new cassettes; which ones are they?
And, what tape cassette deck are you using?

Last, are some of us here at WBF, and abroad, missing something important audio quality wise? :b

Bob, this is the thread:

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?11002-Cassettivity

In terms of sound quality, compared to vinyl and HD downloads, the cassettes sound outright awful in an absolute sense: cloudy, ill-defined, opaque, limited FR and virtually zero soundstaging. This being said, the audio quality is direct and the sound comes across as unprocessed. Imagine a very good board mix.

Machine-wise, have 2 Tascams - one is out for service - and a Nac. In essence if one is to buy a cassette deck today, he should buy whichever deck he wants most, as it'll need hours of service, regardless. The bulk of the cost is the service and parts.

 

[NorthStar]

Thanks Felix for that thread's link.

* I don't think that I'll come back (ever) to play my cassette tapes (and I did some of my own music recordings using only some of the very best blank tapes; Maxell and TDK Metal).
And I won't be re-installing back my numerous cassette tape decks in my rigs (all in good working condition btw because I take good care of them, in & out; I'm quite talented at fixing them, belts and all).

But thx for that line: "The audio quality is direct and the sound comes as unprocessed; imagine a very good board mix." :b