Will do. I believe Higher Sound is also having someone do his installation as well.Excellent Raesco
Yes, I noticed from your pictures, that you have also installed the crossovers higher up in the cabinets, and this is the logical thing to do, when it’s possible with this filter layout. I was concerned the wire from the crossover down to the binding post would be too short. I see that it just works. I will let Tony know to make that wire 35cm from edge of the board on future orders to give a bit more wiggle-room.
Great if you me know what your speaker guy thinks of the cable lengths for the midwoofers and the tweeter when he help you with the installation. Based on your pictures those seems to be fine, maybe they can even be a bit shorter.
Golden Ear - Triton (closer to the) Reference
- Thread starter MortenB
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Yes, we learn during the first one, and the second is much easier 
Just make sure you have an air tight seal between the subwoofer compartment and the MTM box, and all is good. With glue on both sides you have double ‘’security’’. I did the same.
You test for air leaks when all drivers + passive radiators are installed, then push down on the subwoofer with your hand. The Midwoofer must not move, as this indicate air leaking into the MTM box.
I also tried the location of the crossover board you guys are using, but it was not possible with my larger boards. Honestly I did not think the slightly smaller boards from Tony would fit either, but great that they do.
Just make sure you have an air tight seal between the subwoofer compartment and the MTM box, and all is good. With glue on both sides you have double ‘’security’’. I did the same.You test for air leaks when all drivers + passive radiators are installed, then push down on the subwoofer with your hand. The Midwoofer must not move, as this indicate air leaking into the MTM box.
I also tried the location of the crossover board you guys are using, but it was not possible with my larger boards. Honestly I did not think the slightly smaller boards from Tony would fit either, but great that they do.
Having the boards connected by the jumper wire makes it so much easier to maneuver and you have a little bit of wiggle room, I like that I didn't remove any internal bracing which the speaker is designed with.Yes, we learn during the first one, and the second is much easier
You test for air leaks when all drivers + passive radiators are installed, then push down on the subwoofer with your hand. The Midwoofer must not move, as this indicate air leaking into the MTM box.
I also tried the location of the crossover board you guys are using, but it was not possible with my larger boards. Honestly I did not think the slightly smaller boards from Tony would fit either, but great that they do.
Okay, guys, please sit down and buckle your seat belts, here is the 64K $ question.
How do we avoid confirmation, expectation bias regarding this upgrade? After all, we have spent considerable, time, money and effort on this project, surely, it has to sound better?
How do we avoid confirmation, expectation bias regarding this upgrade? After all, we have spent considerable, time, money and effort on this project, surely, it has to sound better?
Yes, the wiggle room was intentional in the design of the new/smaller boards. My capacitors take up more space and my crossover boards are bigger. It was really difficult to get them installed. Hence Tony and I discussed the two-board solution (and slightly smaller parts) to give wiggle room.
As mentioned many times before: No harm done by removing that small brace, like there is no harm done by drilling holes etc inside the cabinets. I still stand by my offer, that if anyone can hear any difference with and without that small brace, they have won my pair of speakers. The winner must collect them here in Denmark though Some of the capacitors in the midwoofer section of my crossovers are higher quality, than on the ones from Tony. So if we do hear a difference, it might be slightly more transparent sound, and I like that, brace or no brace
As also mentioned many times before: Yes, install the boards from Tony, as you guys are doing. It’s the logical location now that we have learned they fit.
As mentioned many times before: No harm done by removing that small brace, like there is no harm done by drilling holes etc inside the cabinets. I still stand by my offer, that if anyone can hear any difference with and without that small brace, they have won my pair of speakers. The winner must collect them here in Denmark though
Some of the capacitors in the midwoofer section of my crossovers are higher quality, than on the ones from Tony. So if we do hear a difference, it might be slightly more transparent sound, and I like that, brace or no brace As also mentioned many times before: Yes, install the boards from Tony, as you guys are doing. It’s the logical location now that we have learned they fit.
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Compare A - B with speakers that are not upgraded, as Mark D did… Or find someone who owns a stock pair of T Ref, and make the comparison between the two pairs of speakers.
Actually we don’t even need to listen, as it’s well known what such upgrade in parts does for sound quality. It’t proven again and again… Check feedback from Tony Gee’s customers, and check feedback from GR Research customers. Also there is sceintific evidence on how -say- an iron core coil behaves when running signal through it, compared to top quality foil coils as we use here. All of this is well known.
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Morten, just to be clear, the overall length of the MTM wires seem adequate, however, the wire ends as presently terminated seem a bit short for the midwoofers at @ 3 inches each.
Attachments
Yes I see there should be a longer length where the insulation is stripped. I’ll let Tony know together with your other feedback on the cabling.
From your picture it does seem like the cable could be a bit shorter, but you figure this out with your speaker guy on saturday
From your picture it does seem like the cable could be a bit shorter, but you figure this out with your speaker guy on saturday
From what I heard the new top model will be around 30% more exensive, than the T Ref, and what they say is, that the money goes into improving quality: The better metal base, better internal wiring etc etc… But who knows, what the strategy will be under the new ownership.
It interesting with Sandy Gross who has been working in the speaker industry for around 40 years or so, but he is not a speaker designer as such (his own words in interviews etc). He defines the concept, the goal etc, and his team of engineers does the cross over design and more. So if the new owner keep the skilled and experienced engineers, they should be able to develop new models - as they did with the T66 where Sandy Gross was not involved.
An intersting thing with the T66: I read the Stereophile review, where the new designers who came after Sandy Gross talks about where they have spend the money after lifting the price point. Notice the text from the review I have highlighted where the mention the cross over and getting rid of ferrous parts. I was exited thinking they god rid of those really nasty ferrous core coils on the mid-woofers, that would for sure be an important improvement… But then… Somewhere online I found this picture of the T66 crossover, and the ferrous core coils are still there. Terrible… What they have improved is the connectors for the wiring, and they added small bypass caps (small red ones next to the yellow caps). So still A LOT of room for improvement, and that’s what we do here with the new cross over.
GoldenEar Technology T66 loudspeaker
Loudspeaker company GoldenEar Technology was founded in 2010 by audio industry veteran Sandy Gross after he left Definitive Technology. With a design team based in Canada that included Martyn Miller, who is still GoldenEar's senior acoustic engineer, GoldenEar produced a series of relatively...www.stereophile.com
Came across this YT video which clearly shows a felt surround of the T66 AMT. I know there was some discussion about applying some felt around the Reference's tweeter. See. 2:53 min mark.From what I heard the new top model will be around 30% more exensive, than the T Ref, and what they say is, that the money goes into improving quality: The better metal base, better internal wiring etc etc… But who knows, what the strategy will be under the new ownership.
It interesting with Sandy Gross who has been working in the speaker industry for around 40 years or so, but he is not a speaker designer as such (his own words in interviews etc). He defines the concept, the goal etc, and his team of engineers does the cross over design and more. So if the new owner keep the skilled and experienced engineers, they should be able to develop new models - as they did with the T66 where Sandy Gross was not involved.
An intersting thing with the T66: I read the Stereophile review, where the new designers who came after Sandy Gross talks about where they have spend the money after lifting the price point. Notice the text from the review I have highlighted where the mention the cross over and getting rid of ferrous parts. I was exited thinking they god rid of those really nasty ferrous core coils on the mid-woofers, that would for sure be an important improvement… But then… Somewhere online I found this picture of the T66 crossover, and the ferrous core coils are still there. Terrible… What they have improved is the connectors for the wiring, and they added small bypass caps (small red ones next to the yellow caps). So still A LOT of room for improvement, and that’s what we do here with the new cross over.
GoldenEar Technology T66 loudspeaker
Loudspeaker company GoldenEar Technology was founded in 2010 by audio industry veteran Sandy Gross after he left Definitive Technology. With a design team based in Canada that included Martyn Miller, who is still GoldenEar's senior acoustic engineer, GoldenEar produced a series of relatively...
FYI, for those interested, I spoke with Chad, Goldenear Studios today, he informed me that Audio Advisors purchased the last 200 Reference speakers, inventory should last 6-12 months.
Hi,
I’m maybe planning to also do an crossover upgrade by Tony Gee but with different speakers. How can you describe your upgrade?
I’m actually very happy with the tonality of my Spendor speakers and don’t want that to change that much. I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering. What can I expect?
I’m a bit hesitant because I don’t know how it would turn out. At the moment I can listen to my set for hours without being annoyed by something I want to change. So it’s nice and balanced, even with a dual sub integration.
Grtz
I’m maybe planning to also do an crossover upgrade by Tony Gee but with different speakers. How can you describe your upgrade?
I’m actually very happy with the tonality of my Spendor speakers and don’t want that to change that much. I’m wondering if it could sound more open, playing with more ease and flow. With some more refinement, texture and layering. What can I expect?
I’m a bit hesitant because I don’t know how it would turn out. At the moment I can listen to my set for hours without being annoyed by something I want to change. So it’s nice and balanced, even with a dual sub integration.
Grtz
With my upgrade from Tony on the T-Refs it has done exactly what you are looking for but so much more. It let's you hear so much more of the recording of music. Instruments sound real now. Vocals have a lot more emotion. Sound stage is wider and deeper. The speakers are more dynamic. It's a very big improvement for my speakers but i also have a very good system that is capable of of doing all this. So if you are planning on doing a upgrade like this and you speakers are the downside of your system you will see big improvement. If your speakers are well designed like the goldenear T-Refs and built with cheap parts it will make a big improvement in your speakers.
Thank you for your response. That’s sounds exactly what I what. Tony said the sound signature wouldn’t change so when I listen to your experience, that seems to be the case.
My speakers are fairly well designed, as far as my experience goes. I’m pretty happy with them at least. I just would like to upgrade the existing values for better. As far as I can see it is a pretty simple design and could use a upgrade.
I do think they do measure wel. See graph.
Grtz
My speakers are fairly well designed, as far as my experience goes. I’m pretty happy with them at least. I just would like to upgrade the existing values for better. As far as I can see it is a pretty simple design and could use a upgrade.
I do think they do measure wel. See graph.
Grtz
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Let me offer my perspectives also Wolff.
The crossover you show in the picture has slightly higher quality parts, than what we have as stock in the T Ref’s: Higher quality coils (better core material) and what appears to be more solid connectors. But still a crossover with a part quality as expected for speakers at this price point = You can expect similar improvements as Mark D and I have described for the T Ref.
I have known Tony Gee for 20 years or so. He is exeptionally skilled, and also very honest, so from my experience you can trust his advise on what to do with your speakers. He is also doing a lot with both similations and actual measurements between the original filter, and the new filter to make sure they perform identical = you keep the signature of the speaker, but get improvements as mentioned by Mark D. Also, he will suggest a solution/price level, that makes sense for the speakers.
In different situations, where the speakers have obviuos problems (bad design) Tony can then design a different crossover, but that’s a different scenario, as you mention this is not what you need.
The crossover you show in the picture has slightly higher quality parts, than what we have as stock in the T Ref’s: Higher quality coils (better core material) and what appears to be more solid connectors. But still a crossover with a part quality as expected for speakers at this price point = You can expect similar improvements as Mark D and I have described for the T Ref.
I have known Tony Gee for 20 years or so. He is exeptionally skilled, and also very honest, so from my experience you can trust his advise on what to do with your speakers. He is also doing a lot with both similations and actual measurements between the original filter, and the new filter to make sure they perform identical = you keep the signature of the speaker, but get improvements as mentioned by Mark D. Also, he will suggest a solution/price level, that makes sense for the speakers.
In different situations, where the speakers have obviuos problems (bad design) Tony can then design a different crossover, but that’s a different scenario, as you mention this is not what you need.
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Enjoy, life is short.Thank you! You both convinced me. I’m gonna do it.
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