Paul McGowan Prefers Digital

[Ron Resnick]

But Peter, it was Ron that started this thread stating he found it incredulous Paul would opt for digital. That doesn't fit the easy come easy go ethos that it's fine to come to any conclusion on preference. Ron just can't believe Paul could feel this way.

Marc, that is what I stated? Really?

I could spend an hour a day meticulously correcting your mischaracterizations of my posts (and, likely, other people‘s posts). It would be wonderful if you simply could avoid misstating and mischaracterizing my posts.

How about working off exactly what people post, instead of first running it through your diffuzinator/confuzinator app?

Thank you.

 

[bonzo75]

Marc, that is what I stated? Really?

I could spend an hour a day meticulously correcting your mischaracterizations of my posts (and, likely, other people‘s posts). It would be wonderful if you simply could avoid misstating and mischaracterizing my posts.

How about working off exactly what people post, instead of first running it through your diffuzinator/confuzinator app?

Thank you.

His app makes wbf fun though, and is unique to this site. Imagine if people started chatting like Mike there would be less back and forth. Just hit the like button and move on. Boring.

 

[spiritofmusic]

"I am baffled that digital truly could be your honest sonic preference".

Nuff said.

Hey Ron, I'll save you an hour a day from now on LOL.

 

[Ron Resnick]

"I am baffled that digital truly could be your honest sonic preference".

Nuff said.

Hey Ron, I'll save you an hour a day from now on LOL.

Thank you, but “nuff” not said.

I do not find it at all “incredulous [that] Paul would opt for digital.” It is clear to me that people easily and likely opt for digital out of convenience and practicality.

I wrote that I was baffled that digital could be his “honest sonic preference.” (emphasis added)

Do you now see the (big) difference between what I wrote and your mischaracterization of what I wrote?

 

[spiritofmusic]

You're using up your day, Ron.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Next controversy, "DJ prefers SQ on AM radio and cassette tapes".

 

[Mike Lavigne]

You're using up your day, Ron.

Marc, don't change. let it flow (not that you wouldn't anyway, but just in case you think about it).

 

[spiritofmusic]

Flow, Mike. What we need to optimise equally in top analog and digital.

Appreciate the comment, btw.

 

[PeterA]

I wait with eager anticipation to read what Mike has to say about his impressions of his comparison between the digital and analog versions of the Janaki Trio. Will they sound similar? Will he have a preference? What will the subtle differences be, if any?

 

[ack]

Thanks Ack. Could you briefly describe how the two formats sound slightly different in your system using the Janaki Trio as an example. What is the sonic reason that you slightly prefer the HDCD version in your system to the 45 rpm record? What are the slight differences to which you allude in your post above? And what specific changes did you do to source component or the other to make it sound more like the other with this recording?

Beyond what I said earlier about the small differences, I'll just say that, if one aims to select sources that are truly transparent to the recording, then inevitably those recordings that have been meticulously transferred to their respective media in the most optimal way, will end up sounding virtually the same in one's system, assuming that there is a single source of truth for a recording (either analog or digital), because again, I think the fundamentals of the underlying technologies have been proven to be sound.

Therefore, my goal is to NOT optimize towards a particular recording medium, but to get the most 'accurate' reproduction out of any source I happen to have (yes, I hear you - what is accurate; whole other discussion). Thus, if I let the great recordings shine, then the system will sound as if it were optimized with any type of source. Such is the case here, including FM.

And if this particular Janaki (or any other recording with optimal transfers) does not sound virtually the same in other systems, I think that's OK as well, as long as they are both *believable* in their own terms. Those systems will also likely sound optimized with respect to each medium.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You gotta love this hobby. I mean that really sincerely, no sarcasm. So even the concept of optimising both digital and analog to the hilt means vastly different things to different listeners.

That can only mean even this simple concept is executed individually amongst audiophiles. And thus why its unfair to criticise why Paul prefers digital.

 

[Bodhi]

Paul McGowan's ca$h register...."ka ching"!!

 

[ack]

You gotta love this hobby. I mean that really sincerely, no sarcasm. So even the concept of optimising both digital and analog to the hilt means vastly different things to different listeners.

That can only mean even this simple concept is executed individually amongst audiophiles. And thus why its unfair to criticise why Paul prefers digital.

Surely, there is a degree of relativism with all things audio. However, Paul's assertion that even the best analog sounds colored to him raises eyebrows, and frankly, no one here agrees with it, as far as I can tell...

 

[ack]

DaveyF is well. He was banned from WBF, but emails privately from time to time.

????? Banned? Why. He's also an administrator???

 

[Pb Blimp]

Since firing up my new system in my new room over a year ago I have been evaluating this issue more closely on a more even playing field than at any time in my 40 years of this hobby. For what its worth, I find myself listening to about 75% vinyl and 25% digital in my system. (This is of course based solely on sound quality. All of the work is a pain.) Maybe my digital is not at the same quality of some but it is pretty good. I simply find the analog more real, with better imaging, dynamics, presence in the room.....simply said, more goose bumps. When I really want emotion on a level unmatched by any medium other than a live performance I start spinning vinyl. Not real scientific, just one data point.

 

[Bar81]

Surely, there is a degree of relativism with all things audio. However, Paul's assertion that even the best analog sounds colored to him raises eyebrows, and frankly, no one here agrees with it, as far as I can tell...

On a forum made up of mostly people with vinyl systems and digital front ends that sounds like vinyl, that's not a surprise - it's effectively self selection. There was a discussion about this on another forum and one of the splits seems to be depending upon whether you grew up with vinyl. If you did, you love vinyl and if you didn't, you're not a fan and find it colored. I'm in the latter camp - I've never heard any vinyl that doesn't sound like vinyl.

 

[Robh3606]

"
If digital truly is Paul’s preference, then I have absolutely no issue with that whatsoever. I am just wondering if it truly is his preference.

Am I being too hard on Paul?

What do you make of Paul’s declaration? "

Hello Ron

Well I for one share it. I was a late adopter of digital and always thought my half speeds and direct to disks where obviously better. Not anymore and recording has changed, digital is the media now. If I get a Hi Rez copy I am pretty much listening to a master. Look at what you have to do to get it on vinyl. First step is a D/A conversion then the fun begins. You probably will be compressing it and rolling off the low end and then you have to run it through the RIAA EQ. Then you cut your master plate it, make copies to press the records. Then when you get it home and have a stylus track a grove convert mechanical movement into u volts to feed a preamp they then does a reverse EQ on the RIAA curve. You also have to match the pre-amp to the cartridge electrically to get the smoothest response. I not even going to get into proper turntable set-up. I am sure I am missing things but I think you get point.

There is so many places for error where distortion can be added it's no wonder that the two media sound different.

I don't think you are being hard on him but you might want too look at it from the perspective that this is his preference and that's why his business is focused that way.

Rob

 

[bazelio]

????? Banned? Why. He's also an administrator???

Maybe the true admins will shed some light in the interest of transparency. From Davey's side, he's persona non grata and his account was switched to administrator with all forum access disabled.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

for the last 2 hours i've been listening to the 45rpm vinyl and digital files of the Janaki Trio album 'Debut' on Yarlung. as i mentioned i have the 45rpm vinyl pressing, as well the Quad dsd download sourced from that tape. before i listened i investigated the recording, and found that there was not only an analog tape source tape for this recording, but also a 176/24 digital master from the same mic feed. so i searched for what downloads were out there, and HD Tracks had an 88/24 download sourced from the 176/24 master. so i went ahead and purchased and downloaded that one. then when i finished downloading it and went to play it, i saw i also have a 16/44 redbook file (of undetermined provenance) of the first track (Penderecki String Trio, Movement 1) too on my server. unknown whether this file contains any HDCD info, or whether my MSB dac would pay any attention to it if it did.

so i have; (1)--tape sourced 45rpm vinyl, (2)--tape sourced Quad dsd, (3)--176/24 sourced 88/24, and (4)---16/44 file from i presume the 176/24 master likely by way of a rip of the commercial CD.

https://www.yarlungrecords.com/product/janaki-string-trio-viny
https://yarlungrecords.nativedsd.com/albums/janaki
http://www.hdtracks.com/debut

since the redbook rip was only of the 7:17 first track (Penderecki String Trio, Movement 1), and in the interest of time, i have only compared that track. it was easy with the digtial to switch back and forth between the 3 different resolutions in Roon. my MSB dac only works in 'bit-perfect', so the dac plays the native resolution and does not up-sample.

i like this music, and enjoy this recording. i'd call it classical mood music, and parts of it challenge the casual listener. it's a piece that might satisfy more on the second or third listen as you get in touch with it's soul. not so much pretty as dark, brooding and intense. maybe 10 years ago it would have been too grown up for me. now it hit's the spot mostly.

the redbook sounds good and dynamically alive and natural sounding. then you play the 88/24 and everything is noticeably better. the redbook comparatively is a bit rough and transients are slightly blurred. the musical focus, harmonics and overtones are more 'there' with the 88/24, more delicacy and 'touch', musical action is more delineated. not a huge difference, but on a recording like this its musically important. is this redbook file as good as the CD? don't know. likely is.....but not 100%. the 88/24 seems to flow better and the sense it's a recording is less. the QUAD dsd is more different than the 88/24 than better or worse. the QUAD dsd is tape sourced, and is maybe more human sounding, but possibly not quite as 'vivid' in some ways as the 88/24. my system 'likes' both of those versions. the Quad dsd version has more space and slightly more decay and ambiance. i'd say some systems might have more synergy with one or the other.

the 88/24 file has over 1 hour of music, whereas the QUAD dsd file is only like the 45 rpm, 28 minutes. so if you are not sure which to get, that might make more sense.

what about the vinyl?

in this particular case, in my particular system, to my particular ears, it's not very close. the vinyl is like a different recording. with the vinyl the recording becomes an event. all sorts of higher degrees of things happen all at once. the musical equation and emotional involvement is much higher. this type music has a tension and sense of projection of energy that while present in the 88/24 and Quad dsd, get unleashed with the vinyl. the sense of being in the room, with more air around the instruments and that air having an organic weight is much more evident. harmonics and decay become more like reality.

i'd say the vinyl has more 'swagger'.

that's how my Sunday morning has gone so far........

 

[Pb Blimp]

what about the vinyl?

in this particular case, in my particular system, to my particular ears, it's not very close. the vinyl is like a different recording. with the vinyl the recording becomes an event. all sorts of higher degrees of things happen all at once. the musical equation and emotional involvement is much higher. this type music has a tension and sense of projection of energy that while present in the 88/24 and Quad dsd, get unleashed with the vinyl. the sense of being in the room, with more air around the instruments and that air having an organic weight is much more evident. harmonics and decay become more like reality.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said.