Paul McGowan Prefers Digital

[sbo6]

I don’t expect to have a relaxation response when I listen to those casual or background sources of music the way I do when I listen in a focused, dedicated way to a high-end system.

I have to be honest Ron - I feel a bit sorry for you. If you listen to an analog source that's not up to your standard do you also not relax? If you listen to a system which is, say, $1000 total source to speakers + amp, are you not relaxed? For me, as an amateur musician it all sounds fake, none of it sounds real and I've heard multi million $ systems. And because I recognize that I enjoy it all, satisfied that it's all a facsimile of the real thing. Music is a beautiful thing irrespective of the quality, music playback on a system where someone has taken efforts and care to produce higher quality sound is icing on the cake.

And for the record - I find cracks, pops, subsonic woofer shuffling, footfalls and inner - groove distortion annoying and a bit unsettling, but I can still relax and love it all especially with a great single malt in hand and friends around.


Happy listening!

Steve

 

[Ron Resnick]

I have to be honest Ron - I feel a bit sorry for you. If you listen to an analog source that's not up to your standard do you also not relax? If you listen to a system which is, say, $1000 total source to speakers + amp, are you not relaxed? For me, as an amateur musician it all sounds fake, none of it sounds real and I've heard multi million $ systems. And because I recognize that I enjoy it all, satisfied that it's all a facsimile of the real thing. Music is a beautiful thing irrespective of the quality, music playback on a system where someone has taken efforts and care to produce higher quality sound is icing on the cake.

And for the record - I find cracks, pops, subsonic woofer shuffling, footfalls and inner - groove distortion annoying and a bit unsettling, but I can still relax and love it all especially with a great single malt in hand and friends around.


Happy listening!

Steve

Dear Steve,

I wrote nothing whatsoever to suggest that even the most modest level of analog reproduction renders me unable to relax.

I think you are conjuring up arguments I did not make, and then answering them yourself. Where did I suggest that you are unsatisfied with stereo-reproduced music? When did I challenge your philosophy of music or of music reproduction?

Why do you seem to have difficulty or cognitive dissonance accepting that I don’t agree with you? Why can’t you just accept that, prior to hearing MSB DACs, I found something irritating about digital playback? Why do you feel some need to convince me that I’m wrong in some way or that I am overlooking something?

 

[bonzo75]

Dear Steve,

I wrote nothing whatsoever to suggest that even the most modest level of analog reproduction renders me unable to relax.

Why do you have so much trouble or cognitive dissonance or whatever accepting that I don’t agree with you? Why can’t you just accept that, prior to hearing MSB DACs, I found something irritating about digital playback? Why do you feel some need to convince me that I’m wrong in some way?

I think the only place of your major demos where you had no choice but to listen to digital were the Henk's grands, since he does only basic streaming, straight from a computer, into a phasure dac. What happened there did you not relax?

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think the only place of your major demos where you had no choice but to listen to digital were the Henk's grands, since he does only basic streaming, straight from a computer, into a phasure dac. What happened there did you not relax?

There I did not relax, but it was not because of the digital. It was because Tinka was with me and because we were pressed for time.

Also, I think I remember I had some trouble figuring out the right distance to the speakers with the chair Henk had there.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, you seemed to be pretty relaxed at the chapel. And all we played were cds on my Eera cdp.

 

[bonzo75]

Ron, you seemed to be pretty relaxed at the chapel. And all we played were cds on my Eera cdp.

So don't you ever listen to your Eera, Marc?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Whenever I'm not listening to lps. What are you meaning?

 

[bonzo75]

Whenever I'm not listening to lps. What are you meaning?

It means why are you ever not relaxed, and on the edge? What happened to your SoH?

 

[bonzo75]

Dear Steve,

I wrote nothing whatsoever to suggest that even the most modest level of analog reproduction renders me unable to relax.

I think you are conjuring up arguments I did not make, and then answering them yourself. Where did I suggest that you are unsatisfied with stereo-reproduced music? When did I challenge your philosophy of music or of music reproduction?

Why do you seem to have difficulty or cognitive dissonance accepting that I don’t agree with you? Why can’t you just accept that, prior to hearing MSB DACs, I found something irritating about digital playback? Why do you feel some need to convince me that I’m wrong in some way or that I am overlooking something?

To be fair, it is because you don't explore digital, which is why he is asking that. Even Al knows more about analog than you know about digital.

I remember when I thought analog was no biggie. I then went out actively checking, and finally found one that made me sit up and realize I need to stop deluding myself. You need to go out actively checking digital. You might retain your views at the end of that exercise, but to strongly stick your views, you need to try to verify the contrary

 

[Al M.]

And for the record - I find cracks, pops, subsonic woofer shuffling, footfalls and inner - groove distortion annoying and a bit unsettling, but I can still relax and love it all especially with a great single malt in hand and friends around.


Happy listening!

Steve

When I'm at friends, I am not bothered at all by cracks and pops, I listen right through them. It even goes so far that when they apologize for a noisy copy, I mostly didn't pay attention to that until they mention it, and I remain unbothered.

But if those were *my* LPs in my own system? Oh boy. It would drive me up the wall. When I was young I was so obsessed with cracks and pops that I would clean an LP and then play it just to see if the pop was gone! I positively had an obsessive cleanosis nervosa. I couldn't stand it. CD was a blessing for me. Finally I could relax. I never looked back, even with the initial faults of CD playback. Yet after more than three decades, how far have we come!

 

[Al M.]

To be fair, it is because you don't explore digital, which is why he is asking that. Even Al knows more about analog than you know about digital.

Hehe, this might actually be true .

 

[PeterA]

Even Al knows more about analog than you know about digital.

That may be because Al's level of interest in vinyl is greater than Ron's interest in digital. I don't think it really matters who knows more or where their interests lie.

I once offered to play Al just one CD on my old Thule CDP through my system. I brought it out of storage to burn in some cables. It sounded pretty good actually. To me, that CDP through my system sounds considerably different from Al's digital system. He had no interest in hearing it. Come to think of it, I don't think Ron had any interest in hearing it either. So it goes.

 

[spiritofmusic]

But Peter, why would Al want to hear it? He's a cd man, and loves his cd optimised system. He would rather come over, and hear lps played wonderfully on yr SME.

My good friend Barry/Blue58 has a fantastic AG Duos horns/own design 45 tube amps. I'm primarily a vinyl man. The last thing I'm interested in was hearing vinyl when he had a tt. I'm only intetested in his truly excellent digital.

Ron can only answer for himself if he actively avoids as much exposure to great digital. It's a shame he doesn't have some fave albums only available on cd or streaming. Then maybe he'd feel more obliged to investigate.

In 2019, no matter how pro analog one is, saying you're uncomfortable w digital other than MSB is pretty limiting. There are any number of other top cdps and dacs that hit the mark.

 

[Ron Resnick]

To be fair, it is because you don't explore digital, which is why he is asking that. Even Al knows more about analog than you know about digital.

I remember when I thought analog was no biggie. I then went out actively checking, and finally found one that made me sit up and realize I need to stop deluding myself. You need to go out actively checking digital. You might retain your views at the end of that exercise, but to strongly stick your views, you need to try to verify the contrary

What is the “it” to which you refer in your first sentence? (Steve has not asserted any logically valid, predicate argument.)

I also don’t explore golf. I think that golf has to be one of the most boring activities ever invented. Maybe I am wrong. I don’t care. I have 0.000% interest in golf. Where’s the beef?

And by the way why don’t you and sbo6 recognize and appreciate my huge turnaround that, these days, I have no issue listening to digital (with MSB)?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, I guess you have the luxury of none of your essential albums being on digital. Maybe if you had a few dozen non lp faves, you'd be obliged to be more open to digital.

 

[bonzo75]

What is the “it” to which you refer in your first sentence? (Steve has not asserted any logically valid, predicate argument.)

I also don’t explore golf. I think that golf has to be one of the most boring activities ever invented. Maybe I am wrong. I don’t care. I have zero interest in golf. Where’s the beef?

And by the way why don’t you and sbo6 recognize and appreciate my huge turnaround that, these days, I have no issue listening to digital (with MSB)?

Yes since you don't explore golf, you don't state opinions on golf vs cricket or football or some other sport that you do follow, apart from the fact that you don't know about it and find it boring (which is valid)

My turnaround, like your MSB, was an SPJ alba TT with Koetsu blue lace diamond and FM phono.. Also the Munich western electric room where restored idlers kept making a mockery of the dCS scarlatti (they would alternate every track). So I bought some LPs I saw in that room and started going around using them as a reference point to investigate analog gear

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, I guess you have the luxury of none of your essential albums being on digital. Maybe if you had a few dozen non lp faves, you'd be obliged to be more open to digital.

Finally, after numerous logic-immune posts, something I can agree with.

And if you and others weren’t so focused on my general disinterest in digital you would have noticed that I have written more than once that, at least in theory, and with the MSB in practice, I prefer to listen to digital recordings on a digital playback system.

Converting a digital recording to analog does not, in theory, make any sense to me.

 

[PeterA]

To be fair, it is because you don't explore digital, which is why he is asking that. Even Al knows more about analog than you know about digital.

I remember when I thought analog was no biggie. I then went out actively checking, and finally found one that made me sit up and realize I need to stop deluding myself. You need to go out actively checking digital. You might retain your views at the end of that exercise, but to strongly stick your views, you need to try to verify the contrary

I understand your point Kedar. You think that Ron should listen to more digital and have more experience with the medium before he states his opinion. But, I think he is only talking about his opinion. He does not seem to be making declarative statements about the two formats. And, he does not seem to be interested in learning more about it. Isn't that his choice to make?

You were curious about analog and wanted to learn more, so you actively went about doing so. But why are you telling Ron that he "needs" to do things. Isn't how he enjoys the hobby or music listening, his own choice? No one is telling you that you "need" to buy your own stereo to enjoy music to be able to share your opinions on this forum.

I hope no one feels the need to tell me that I need to add add a digital source to my system. No one is telling Al that he needs to add a vinyl source to his system. Al knows something about analog because he has two good friends who have vinyl rigs and he chooses to listen to them and learn something about the medium. That is his choice. It does not seem as though Ron has that same interest about digital. Why tell him to do something that he seems to not have any interest in doing? If Ron has a limited choice in music, and only wants to hear it from an analog source, that is his choice, no?

 

[microstrip]

(...) And if you and others weren’t so focused on my general disinterest in digital you would have noticed that I have written more than once that, at least in theory, and with the MSB in practice, I prefer to listen to digital recordings on a digital playback system.

Are you saying you prefer the Jennifer Warnes in the digital version? Can I ask what top digital equipment you have listened in adequate conditions?

Converting a digital recording to analog does not, in theory, make any sense to me.

In theory it makes a lot of sense - it can mask some information that can be perceived as an obstacle to enjoyment and add some enjoyable distortions. I remember reading that some sound engineers acknowledged they use tape loops in their digital mastering, claiming it was subjectively superior to the tape plug-in .

 

[bonzo75]

No one is saying he has to. I am saying because he doesn't, and then states vinyl is an obvious choice, he gets this various challenges. You don't make these statements.