Paul McGowan Prefers Digital

[bonzo75]

Sorry Peter your analogies are wrong. It is the equivalent of me saying horns are an obvious choice without listening to cones, or you saying cones are an obvious choice over horns without exploring horns.

No one is saying you have to do it. But if not done, you need to be careful what you state in such compares where you have no interest in one of the components being compared

 

[Ron Resnick]

I understand your point Kedar. You think that Ron should listen to more digital and have more experience with the medium before he states his opinion. But, I think he is only talking about his opinion. He does not seem to be making declarative statements about the two formats. And, he does not seem to be interested in learning more about it. Isn't that his choice to make?

You were curious about analog and wanted to learn more, so you actively went about doing so. But why are you telling Ron that he "needs" to do things. Isn't how he enjoys the hobby or music listening, his own choice? No one is telling you that you "need" to buy your own stereo to enjoy music to be able to share your opinions on this forum.

I hope no one feels the need to tell me that I need to add add a digital source to my system. No one is telling Al that he needs to add a vinyl source to his system. Al knows something about analog because he has two good friends who have vinyl rigs and he chooses to listen to them and learn something about the medium. That is his choice. It does not seem as though Ron has that same interest about digital. Why tell him to do something that he seems to not have any interest in doing? If Ron has a limited choice in music, and only wants to hear it from an analog source, that is his choice, no?

Exactly, Peter! Thank you very much!

 

[microstrip]

I understand your point Kedar. You think that Ron should listen to more digital and have more experience with the medium before he states his opinion. But, I think he is only talking about his opinion. He does not seem to be making declarative statements about the two formats. And, he does not seem to be interested in learning more about it. Isn't that his choice to make?

You were curious about analog and wanted to learn more, so you actively went about doing so. But why are you telling Ron that he "needs" to do things. Isn't how he enjoys the hobby or music listening, his own choice? No one is telling you that you "need" to buy your own stereo to enjoy music to be able to share your opinions on this forum.

I hope no one feels the need to tell me that I need to add add a digital source to my system. No one is telling Al that he needs to add a vinyl source to his system. Al knows something about analog because he has two good friends who have vinyl rigs and he chooses to listen to them and learn something about the medium. That is his choice. It does not seem as though Ron has that same interest about digital. Why tell him to do something that he seems to not have any interest in doing? If Ron has a limited choice in music, and only wants to hear it from an analog source, that is his choice, no?

Peter,

In some aspects I disagree with you. If we openly challenge the opinion of someone, we must have more than a superficial and minimal knowledge about the subject. This thread, intentionally or not, was a clear challenge on the digital format. Although it can exist in some conditions, the digital induced headache is almost childish argumentation. But debating in depth why it can happen can be an interesting subject.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . . This thread . . . was a clear challenge on the digital format.

. . .

Dear Francisco,

My opening post was explicit, narrow and specific. It was a specific question to a particular individual. I don’t know how, on its face (meaning apart from your assumptions and generalizations about my personal opinions), it could have been more narrow.

I totally respect your right to interpret things as you wish, but if one reads my opening post with a precise, logical, analytical mind I truly do not understand how you could come to this view.

 

[PeterA]

Sorry Peter your analogies are wrong. It is the equivalent of me saying horns are an obvious choice without listening to cones, or you saying cones are an obvious choice over horns without exploring horns.

No one is saying you have to do it. But if not done, you need to be careful what you state in such compares where you have no interest in one of the components being compared

Kedar, you wrote that Ron "needs" to do something. I took that to mean that you think he "has" to do it. I agree with you that it would lend some credibility to proclamations that one makes regarding these things, but, I don't see Ron proclaiming anything about one format over the other. He is simply stating his opinion based on his admittedly limited experience. He also admits that he had a sort of epiphany with regard to digital when he heard the MSB DAC.

I am careful not to make pronouncements or proclamations about speaker typology because, I agree with you that my experience is limited. I have also told you that I would like to hear more horn and panel speakers. That does not diminish my appreciation for my own cone speakers. And in the end, it is only my opinion.

 

[bonzo75]

Kedar, you wrote that Ron "needs" to do something. I took that to mean that you think he "has" to do it. I agree with you that it would lend some credibility to proclamations that one makes regarding these things, but, I don't see Ron proclaiming anything about one format over the other. He is simply stating his opinion based on his admittedly limited experience. He also admits that he had a sort of epiphany with regard to digital when he heard the MSB DAC.

I am careful not to make pronouncements or proclamations about speaker typology because, I agree with you that my experience is limited. I have also told you that I would like to hear more horn and panel speakers. That does not diminish my appreciation for my own cone speakers. And in the end, it is only my opinion.

Exactly, you don't, and that is right. I forgot we play what's the exact word here, and I did mot realise you had written your reply because of the use of my word "needs", in retrospect I would eliminate that from my original post while reading.

 

[sbo6]

Dear Steve,

I wrote nothing whatsoever to suggest that even the most modest level of analog reproduction renders me unable to relax.

I think you are conjuring up arguments I did not make, and then answering them yourself. Where did I suggest that you are unsatisfied with stereo-reproduced music? When did I challenge your philosophy of music or of music reproduction?

Why do you seem to have difficulty or cognitive dissonance accepting that I don’t agree with you? Why can’t you just accept that, prior to hearing MSB DACs, I found something irritating about digital playback? Why do you feel some need to convince me that I’m wrong in some way or that I am overlooking something?

Ron, we're talking passed each other. WRT a modest analog reproduction, it was a question I asked, not a statement. WRT me being unsatisfied with stereo-reproduced music, that was my assessment about myself. And finally, there is no difficulty whatsoever on my part in terms of where you stand (and I'm certain I'm not alone). Again, I (this is my opinion - not you) find it a bit disheartening that some folks don't realize their level of bias and for lack of better descriptors vinyl snobbery in the way of so many excellent sounding digital sources and music. I wonder if the MSB had one less 0 in its price tag if that too would be fatiguing; hopefully I am wrong. And for the record, while I haven't heard the $90K MSB I have heard other high end models and I've always felt the TotalDAC 12 sounded more realistic. Even the Aries Cerat was better IMO. You should give those a listen, you may relax with them too. It's all good, peace and love.

Steve B.

 

[microstrip]

Francisco,

My opening post was explicit, narrow and specific. I totally respect your right to interpret things as you wish, but if one reads my opening post with a precise, logical, analytical mind I truly do not understand how you could come to this view.

IMHO if one reads just the opening post with a precise, logical, analytical mind he will be astonished with it. It looks like a war declaration ... It is why I am focusing on the message, not the messengers.

Can I ask why you suppressed the words "intentionally or not " from my original words in the quote? It was a key part of the sentence.

 

[sbo6]

I understand your point Kedar. You think that Ron should listen to more digital and have more experience with the medium before he states his opinion. But, I think he is only talking about his opinion. He does not seem to be making declarative statements about the two formats. And, he does not seem to be interested in learning more about it. Isn't that his choice to make?

You were curious about analog and wanted to learn more, so you actively went about doing so. But why are you telling Ron that he "needs" to do things. Isn't how he enjoys the hobby or music listening, his own choice? No one is telling you that you "need" to buy your own stereo to enjoy music to be able to share your opinions on this forum.

I hope no one feels the need to tell me that I need to add add a digital source to my system. No one is telling Al that he needs to add a vinyl source to his system. Al knows something about analog because he has two good friends who have vinyl rigs and he chooses to listen to them and learn something about the medium. That is his choice. It does not seem as though Ron has that same interest about digital. Why tell him to do something that he seems to not have any interest in doing? If Ron has a limited choice in music, and only wants to hear it from an analog source, that is his choice, no?

As far as I can tell no one is telling anyone to add anything to their system. If anything the OP commented on how Paul did not prefer analog and whether his assessment was based purely on audio quality and / or preference. If anything, who's telling who to change?

Edit: See the post above mine. Es la verdad.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ron, you like Jennifer Warnes. An early digital recording/mastering. When you were here, you played U2 on cd. I'm sure some of their 80s albums and pretty much all their 90s and onwards albums are digital. You say you really like London Grammar. I'm sure they're digital too.

I'm sure you get where I'm going here...

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, we're talking passed each other. WRT a modest analog reproduction, it was a question I asked, not a statement. WRT me being unsatisfied with stereo-reproduced music, that was my assessment about myself. And finally, there is no difficulty whatsoever on my part in terms of where you stand (and I'm certain I'm not alone). Again, I (this is my opinion - not you) find it a bit disheartening that some folks don't realize their level of bias and for lack of better descriptors vinyl snobbery in the way of so many excellent sounding digital sources and music. I wonder if the MSB had one less 0 in its price tag if that too would be fatiguing; hopefully I am wrong. And for the record, while I haven't heard the $90K MSB I have heard other high end models and I've always felt the TotalDAC 12 sounded more realistic. Even the Aries Cerat was better IMO. You should give those a listen, you may relax with them too. It's all good, peace and love.

Steve B.

All good, indeed!

I promise you I am not focused on the MSB price tag. Whatever allows me to find the MSB to be non-irritating I found it in each price level of the MSB DACs. (During Alex’s demo for Keith Alex played at least two different MSB DACs.). I think Keith chose the second least expensive DAC, and that is the one I am basing my report on.

While not a high priority for me I have to say I am curious about which other DACs I might find musically engaging and fine to listen to.

I would like to hear a direct MSB versus Lampi duel.

 

[bonzo75]

All good, indeed!

I promise you I am not focused on the MSB price tag. Whatever allows me to find the MSB to be non-irritating I found it in each price level of the MSB DACs. (During Alex’s demo for Keith Alex played at least two different MSB DACs.). I think Keith chose the second least expensive DAC, and that is the one I am basing my report on.

While not a high priority for me I have to say I am curious about which other DACs I might find musically engaging and fine to listen to.

I would like to hear a direct MSB versus Lampi duel.

I have done it, Mike has done it, Al rainbow has done it, and audioquattr has done it. The latter two did not do with the select, but owned platinum and big 7/GG before upgrading to Pacific.

But tbh to do a duel you should also duel them with total dac and Aries cerat to be fair to other brands. No matter how much I try, I am not in the mood to be tolerant to dCS, esoteric, trinity

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron, you like Jennifer Warnes. An early digital recording/mastering. When you were here, you played U2 on cd. I'm sure some of their 80s albums and pretty much all their 90s and onwards albums are digital. You say you really like London Grammar. I'm sure they're digital too.

I'm sure you get where I'm going here...

I have no idea where you are going. I have already written that I prefer to listen to a digital recording on a digital playback system. Unless proven otherwise by comparative listening, this is true for me for all digital recordings.

So you are citing specific examples of digital recordings to see if my general view (above) applies to these particular recordings? (Logically, why wouldn’t it?)

 

[Al M.]

And for the record, while I haven't heard the $90K MSB I have heard other high end models and I've always felt the TotalDAC 12 sounded more realistic. Even the Aries Cerat was better IMO. You should give those a listen, you may relax with them too. It's all good, peace and love.

Steve B.

Steve, may I ask what specifically you found more realistic about the Total DAC12 sound? And which MSB models have you heard? I think the general consensus among MSB fans is that the new generation MSB DACs (Discrete, Premier, Reference, Select II) is a different ballgame than the old one (Analog, Platinum etc.).

Thanks
Al

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, if you love Jennifer Warnes and maybe at least a couple of dozen digitally mastered albums, why dont we ever hear of your search for an adequate to good digital source to make the most of them?

By your own admission you have a more limited number of fave analog recordings than anyone else on this forum, and yet prepared to spend $150k plus on SOTA tt and R2R to make the most of them.

By definition you should be spending something significant to enjoy those digital recordings you love.

Talk to JackD201 and Albert Von Schwiekert. They're both huge fans of Eera digital. You can have a totally engrossing one box cdp for $13k, their top transport/dac combo for c$20k, which you could then add a decent server and still have change from a total spend of $20-30k.

Ron, I'm a vinylphile first and foremost. For me to find a digital source like Eera that is as seamless in tandem with a tt, displaying so many of the best traits of analog, well this is such a bonus for my listening preferences, valueing analog so highly. Yet having a digital source I can't wait to play every day.

Talk to Jack and Albert.

 

[NorthStar]

Ron, you seemed to be pretty relaxed at the chapel. And all we played were cds on my Eera cdp.

This Eera Pop-Tarts artist or it's the brand of a CD player? ..Lol I'm just humoros Marc.
Digital or analog she is no relaxation.

 

[spiritofmusic]

NS, it's a CDP and it's French. Maybe that's two sins too many LOL.

It may interest some, but streaming is not all powerful. In mainland Europe, esp France, Germany, Belgium and Holland, and of course Japan, cds still sell, and cdp's are in great demand.

Hence brands like Eera exist, offering cdp's, transports, as well as dacs.

 

[KeithR]

This thread:

 

[bonzo75]

This thread:

View attachment 49263

Yes but such topics always do

 

[Mike Lavigne]

digital is good = we like digital = digital makes me happy = digital is satisfying because....... = digital is good enough and here is why

no problem.

digital is better than xxx = i prefer digital to xxx

train wreck.

nothing mysterious about it.