Placebo effects in the extreme
- Thread starter esldude
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i can see why you fell out with peter, he clearly does not posses a logical mind. after all in a male dominated hobby if you ban all wankers.. well he would not even be left talking to himself!
You all got my 70s tv ref... jolly good! roll on, allo allo and hi-de-hi.
That's the power of the mind. The thread is actually open. Proves the power of placebo. Not
Perhaps, King of Audio (I can't believe you call yourself that btw - even in jest), you would do well not to air your dirty laundry in public.
How about we have two forums? - one for the ones whose hobby is looking at graphs and making predications based on how smart they think they are, and arguing with each other to prove same, and another for the rest of us whose hobby is listening to actual music and sharing our experiences with that. I promise not to post in yours if you promise not to post in mine....
God imagine that - a forum free of graphs? Hellehuyah.
It's very disheartening to see this polite, but angry fighting going on in the forum or even know that it is going on in the background.
The fact is the objectivists and subjectivists NEED each other. As Nietzsche said, "love your enemies for they tell you your faults."
If there were only subjectivists, we would have only vacuum tube low fidelity crap that was perceived as melodious with 50% even order "pleasant" distortion.
With only objectivists, we would have only solid state devices with 0.0001% "harsh, horrible sounding" odd order distortion like in the 1960's.
(I know, I exaggerated a little on the numbers.)
You guys need each other to keep the sound melodious and the fidelity high. It's the disagreements that helped make high fidelity what it is today. If everyone agreed that everything was terrific, we would never have improvements.
The fact is the objectivists and subjectivists NEED each other. As Nietzsche said, "love your enemies for they tell you your faults."
If there were only subjectivists, we would have only vacuum tube low fidelity crap that was perceived as melodious with 50% even order "pleasant" distortion.
With only objectivists, we would have only solid state devices with 0.0001% "harsh, horrible sounding" odd order distortion like in the 1960's.
(I know, I exaggerated a little
on the numbers.)You guys need each other to keep the sound melodious and the fidelity high. It's the disagreements that helped make high fidelity what it is today. If everyone agreed that everything was terrific, we would never have improvements.
Wow, I want her to be my Queen; she has all what it takes...the entire apparel! And is she as flamboyant inside too? :b
Talk about placebo effects!
I'm still waiting (after 28 years since getting into this hobby) any peer reviewed, scientifically rigorous, papers that exclude the ears and the ear/brain connection as it pertains to audible differences from the various standards of biased controlled testing that is used in every branch of science that I know of.
I would like one non-conjecture link.
I would like one non-conjecture link.
I can't help it. It is my given name: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=amir
"Amir
Means prince, king, leader...
Loves to get crunk, has good sence of style, a pimp, all girls want him all guys want to be him, hardcore gangsta that will kick your ass....
1. Hes such an Amir...
I am sexy and I know it....
In my opinion, this entire subject of objectivists and subjectivists is nonsense. I am an engineer and have worked on both hardware, and currently software. I firmly believe in measurements. It is impossible to build an electronic device without measurements.
However, I also believe my ears. If I change a power cord, and it sounds better, then it sounds better. I am tired of having all the pseudo-engineers, and arm chair psychiatrists implying I am delusional, and my mind is playing tricks. Simply because some are weak minded and hard of hearing does not mean everyone is.
Just listen to your stereo, and quit trying to save people from spending their money anyway they desire.
However, I also believe my ears. If I change a power cord, and it sounds better, then it sounds better. I am tired of having all the pseudo-engineers, and arm chair psychiatrists implying I am delusional, and my mind is playing tricks. Simply because some are weak minded and hard of hearing does not mean everyone is.
Just listen to your stereo, and quit trying to save people from spending their money anyway they desire.
May I ask what you engineer? I may wish to avoid those hard minded and easy of hearing.
And bring us back what we lost, and what they stole from us...our youth. :b ...And all that jazz they thought wasn't good enough for their own ears.
Hello, BlueFox and good evening to your sir. I just so happen to agree. The two IMO should compliment them self and be a learning tool for all that are interested in any given subject when it comes to our hobby.
The "camps" on this forum are not necessary IMO but they have been brought forth, agitated and seemingly separated by a few on this forum. This is a shame IMO as I personally have been on many forums where the subjectivists and objectivists are one and there is no fighting, arguments or otherwise disrespect toward one stance or another. Sure, some folks request measurements but every other thread isn't derailed by off topic comments and rude posts demanding proof from one side or the other on a seemingly unending basis.
This is where I believe a major part of this forums recent downturn (heated discussions that violate the TOS) stems from. Someone important here fuels the fire, the followers chime in with support and the end result is the factions that should have never happened to begin with. This is said with the utmost respect to all. These are the thoughts I will share tonight.
Tom
Went to use the restroom in the grocery store today. I walked in and noticed they had taken all the urinals out and put in more closed in toilets. No problem. Go in one, raise the lid, do my business. Come out and wash my hands. Then try to get all the loose hairs out of my hair as I had just had a hair cut. As I am looking at the mirror doing that, I see something no man should see in a restroom: a woman washing her hands! Then the truth dawned on me. I was in ladies room! The lady though, was 100% cool and did not even blink at the sign of a male in that restroom. Breathed a sigh of relief and ran out as fast as I could.
Me thinks if that lady could tolerate me in that situation, we should easily be able to do that among ourselves in this forum with mixed backgrounds...
Me thinks if that lady could tolerate me in that situation, we should easily be able to do that among ourselves in this forum with mixed backgrounds...
Ah..is that where it all stems from Amir. I see.
So how about it mate - split the forum into two? - one forum for you plot loving blokes and another for the rest of us. You can have the free market run yours - your famous "if you don't like it don't read it" ethos and moderate as you see (or don't see) fit and appoint whoever you like to the role. Heck you could even have Blizz. back proclaiming the superiority of Quad DSD 256 via HQP at every turn. Hell appoint him and spazmatron moderators, or even better DaveC. Ban whoever you want. If I set foot in the place you can ban me instantly from it.
The other forum could be run by the other co founder as he sees fit - with his own moderators, where folk of like mind can happily post away about what they have heard, what they haven't and what they would like to. And again he can ban however he wants.
And the two of you agree to stay on your respective sides of the fence.
I think that is a great idea.
For my part Rodney I can very happily live without objectivists. Frankly I couldn't care less how something does or does not measure, or what it should in theory do or not do. All I'm really interested in is how it sounds to me, and others with similar experiences and interests.
Imagine a WBF free of the constant bickering and conflict that is the normal now. Hellejulah indeed.
Steve williams
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