IME that would certainly be true with digital source components. I literally have what amounts to a DAC graveyard.
Price, Value, Worth and COGS
- Thread starter Alan Sircom
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And I would say that the opposite is true as well. Some of yesteryear's gear sounds better than some of today's high-end gear. A great circuit is a great circuit. It's always better to have a great circuit built with so-so parts than a not so good cicruit built with the "best" parts. The great circuit will sound better every time.
What I'm calling a circuit is a preamp design or power amp design or a DAC design. I don't know if you are asking this question because you want to break each part of the design down into separate circuits (which of course you could) rather than me using the word circuit to describe the finished product. What is a great circuit? I would say any circuit that was designed by a talented audio engineer with a sharp set of ears and was designed and built with a minimum of compromise due to cost. Think RAM products for instance. Think about the work Stewart Hegeman did for Harmon Kardon with the Citation series of power amps and preamps. Think about John Curl and his early ML work and his Vendetta Research phono preamp. Think about Sid Smith and Saul Marantz and the Model 2, Model 5, Model 8/8B, Model 9, and the 7C. I guess we could throw in a few McIntosh designs as well as McIntosh certainly had some very talented engineers. You get the picture.
IMO, entry level high end audio consumers have never had it better value wise. Connect your iPod ($400) or hard drive to a Peachtree Art Decco 2 ($800) driving a pair of Zu Omen Standards ($1500) and you've got a terrific system. Add in the cabling and for ~$3,000 you got a rig which is capable of delivering highly satisfying sound. Could you have gotten comparable sound for the inflation adjusted $1800 in 1985? (Of course computer audio didn't even exist.) Not only that you have instantaneous access to your music library for which you can purchase songs for less than a buck each (presuming your not ripping your buddy's CD's or music files). If you want to experiment with analog you spend another $1,100 for a Rega Planar with Elys cartridge...
Will this system reproduce to the level of a system with SOTA equipment (whatever that may be)? Well no, but it certainly delivers a great bang for the buck and is a huge upgrade from listening thru ear buds.
Will this system reproduce to the level of a system with SOTA equipment (whatever that may be)? Well no, but it certainly delivers a great bang for the buck and is a huge upgrade from listening thru ear buds.
Reminds me of when we got the first DEC computers in our lab in 1982. Less than a year later, they were boat anchors. 51/4 inch floppies
Good Point Jazdoc and one that I tend to miss at times . My gripes are however with the SOTA or what is construed as the SOTA. There is an implcit correlation these days about SOTA and a level of (high) price thus the often repeated example of the Revel Salon 2. A SOTA speaker not to everyone liking (please let me know of such a speaker or component). SOTA nonetheless, fully competitive with speakers costing 5 times (and more) its price.
. My gripes are however with the SOTA or what is construed as the SOTA. There is an implcit correlation these days about SOTA and a level of (high) price thus the often repeated example of the Revel Salon 2. A SOTA speaker not to everyone liking (please let me know of such a speaker or component). SOTA nonetheless, fully competitive with speakers costing 5 times (and more) its price.You have to consider two things - according to the US inflation calculator, inflation between 1995 and 2011 was 109%, decreasing your $1800 to $860 and at that time hifi components were not manufactured in China.
Anyway, I could find in the The Absolute Sounds Guide to High End Audio Components of 1985
a complete Sumiko turntable for 350 and plenty of good speakers by known brands starting at 300. Unhappily they did not list integrated amplifiers, but I think a Creek integrated amplifier with phono could be bought around 350 at that time.
BTW the 1985 guide lists speakers costing 50000, 80000 and even the top Wilson costed 125000. If we apply the inflation correction we can not say that high prices are exclusive of our time!
Reminds me of when we got the first DEC computers in our lab in 1982. Less than a year later, they were boat anchors. 51/4 inch floppies
A VAX 11-750 boat anchor?
One of the potential difficulties people in the industry face is the credibility of relatively inexpensive products in the traditional audiophile market. The Peachtree is a perfect case in point. I wrote a review of the Peachtree iDecco partnered with a pair of Amphion Argon 3 loudspeakers. This, plus an iPhone full of music delivers an excellent sound. Not just for the money, but an intrinsically excellent sound. OK, so not with the range or the headroom of bigger systems, but excellent nonetheless. So good in fact, I felt it deserved an award for System of the Year, 2010.
In most cases, this was received very well. Especially among high-end manufacturers, who consider this kind of system to be a launch-pad for the next audiophile generation. Others considered it some kind of affront against good sound because it dared to use an iPhone as a source component and the magazine should concentrate on more important and relevant products to today's audio market... such as twelve-inch tonearms. Others dismissed the system out of hand because 'something that cheap cannot be any good'. This animosity toward cheaper products and those that use an iProduct as source was predominantly from the readership.
There are lots of exceptional products, some are cheap. Some expensive. And some extremely expensive. But few seem to realize that products above or below their price range are capable of good performance and are relevant to a lot of people.
Thanks for the clarification. I asked because in electronics a circuit has a different, more restrict meaning. It seems you are calling a circuit for the whole model design. With this sense we agree on your previous post. BTW, if you replace the original transformer from a McIntosh with a replica of the transformer you will get a different amplifier, even if the winding has the same number of turns. The implementation is also part of the design.
Last Saturday, my partner and I were mapping out our new webpage in my dining room. A few calls later and we ended up with an impromptu cocktail party with a dozen or so of our friends. Normally we retreat to the Lair in the basement which is set up to be a lounge as well as a dedicated listening room. This time we all stayed in the kitchen/dining. The system? My Laptop, a Bel Canto S300i and Duevel Planets playing Dash Berlin's United Destination 2011. If alcohol consumption is any indication of how well a system can get people in the groove, I've got a winner! So I'm with Alan. I think it's never been easier to get intrinsically good sound for so little money and so few components as now.
So I'm with Alan. I think it's never been easier to get intrinsically good sound for so little money and so few components as now.
Reminds me of when we got the first DEC computers in our lab in 1982. Less than a year later, they were boat anchors. 51/4 inch floppies
Stop complaining Myles you had it good
On one level I agree with you Frantz. I think a lot of so-called SOTA equipment are really 'me too' designs and implementations. Slightly different different flavoring but not much better or worse. I think we all notice the differences but is it really better? I can't help but think this is a source of ennui and discouragement for folks spending a lot of money. You buy the 'latest and greatest' equipment and inevitably the sound changes, but often (?usually) it's not necessarily better.
Warren Buffett once observed that 'in order to beat the S&P 500 you have to own something different than the S&P 500'. I think the same holds true for audio. If you strive for something better you have to be willing to look beyond the usual suspects. The good news is that those products are out there. While often expensive, they truly justify the investment.
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Good Point Jazdoc and one that I tend to miss at times
I think the relative bargain that Revels are in the high-end world is pretty easy to explain: Harman International has multiple sources of revenue. They don't have to cover the salary of a few employees with every speaker set they sell.
Tim
The MG 20.1 are the same of SOTA-at-a-sane-price speaker... The same cannot be said about Magnepan ...
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