QSA LANEDRI Series

Hi Steven,
Very glad yo see that there is a QSA Forum on WBF.
Congratulations!



I think I wrote the first QSA review on WBF, back in 2012.
:D

May I ask you two questions?

Firstly, I notice on you website that QSA-Lanedri cables are being launched.

May you tell us more about them?
What metals are employed and what special features do they have?

Secondly, several frds of mine in Hong Kong have bought QSA JitterPower.
IMG-20221230-WA0009.jpg

Again, please tell the WBF members more about these series of accessories.

Many thanks!

Cheers,
CK
 
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Hi Blackmorec,

Our position is not to discuss the QSA technology as any discussion at whatever level will lead to more questions.

The QSA technology is an enabler for achieving the ultimate goal of improving audio and video quality to unprecedented level that were never achieved at any price and the QSA Lanedri brand is created to share the joy of this audio and video experiences with the world.

We intend that this forum is all about sharing those QSA Lanedri experiences allowing all of us to learn and for whomever interested to be part of this QSA Lanedri journey.
Hi again. Any answer to my question about whether the technology is patented or if patents are pending? If so, we could read the patent application, which is freely available in the public domain. Reading these threads the word ’Quantum’ crops up several times so I’m interested to know who actually invented the treatment and their academic background? As one Nobel laureate once said, if you think you understand quantum mechanics you don't understand quantum mechanics.
 
Hi again. Any answer to my question about whether the technology is patented or if patents are pending? If so, we could read the patent application, which is freely available in the public domain. Reading these threads the word ’Quantum’ crops up several times so I’m interested to know who actually invented the treatment and their academic background? As one Nobel laureate once said, if you think you understand quantum mechanics you don't understand quantum mechanics.

@QSA-LANEDRI can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe there's a patent having done my own search once upon a time. Nor am I surprised that there would be no desire to patent this technology because you're then forced to divulge your IP which is the last thing QSA would want to do. It's the same reason Coca Cola chose not to patent their recipe. As an intellectual, I can understand your desire to know what's going on here. I feel that way, too. It's not going to happen.
 
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Blackmorec, I wish you hadn’t. While I have a different take on QSA pricing — how a $26.75 Blue Jeans coax cable becomes $2500 or $4000 — I appreciated your post as an intelligent and interesting speculative discussion.
That is best assessed on the outcome. Does the treated cable have anything in common performance-wise with the untreated cable? Report after report have indicated that the answer isn’t just no, it’s hell no. Economics explains the rest.

The reply I deleted addressed patents. I mentioned that their purpose is to offer legal recourse if one’s invention is copied. QSA’s invention is whatever they are doing to process these cables. One can’t reverse-engineer this by slicing open a cable and since the invention itself never makes it into the hands of them public, the risk of copying it is extremely low. It thus makes perfect sense that patent protection wouldn’t be sought.
 
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Blackmorec, I wish you hadn’t. While I have a different take on QSA pricing — how a $26.75 Blue Jeans coax cable becomes $2500 or $4000 — I appreciated your post as an intelligent and interesting speculative discussion.
Thank you highstream . The reason I deleted the text was entirely because it was, by the very nature of the subject matter and product involved, speculative. I have always wondered what my reaction would be if someone did exactly what QSA seem to be doing, namely finding a trick to give a $50 item $3000 performance with commensurate pricing. Would the performance be enough for me to justify the price or would it simply represent insufficient value for money in terms of the actual hardware and effort involved.
A friend whose ears I very much trust recommended the QSA speaker cables at $22,000 so I took a serious look at the product. While QSA avoids providing any details, they do make reference to Quantum physics, which practically no one, including me fully understands, but does have a very scientific, futuristic ring. Indeed Quantum is used in the company’s name, so the impression is that this is real cutting edge technology. They do go so far as to list 3 key technologies, namely:

Metal Molecular Activation Technology
Musical Metal Molecule Alignment Technology and
Skin Deep Compensation Technology

Now anyone with a scientific background would know that metals, for example Copper, Tin, Iron, Aluminium, Silver, Gold etc. are elements, so by definition contain no molecules, only atoms. Any technology that modifies metals would need to be working at the atomic rather than molecular level and pretty much the only thing that I am aware of that can be modified using a non-destructive, external technique is electron spin, which can be aligned or randomised. I have absolutely no doubt that randomising electron spin (degaussing) can have a major effect on a voltage passing through a metal where any level of magnetism created by lone electrons (weak magnetic dipoles) with the same spin orientation can form eddy currents in the presence of an electrical current. Now i could be way off base but it would be interesting for any audiophile with access to commercial degaussing (demagnetizing) equipment to take something like a Blue Jeans cable and subject it to a decaying oscillating field in order to randomise lone electron spin in order that they behave like electron pairs and cancel one another’s charges, so no field exists and therefore no eddy currents are formed.
 
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Now anyone with a scientific background would know that metals, for example Copper, Tin, Iron, Aluminium, Silver, Gold etc. are elements, so by definition contain no molecules, only atoms.
Maybe the clue can be found in the fact that the QSA process is more effective with lower purity metals. It’s been too long since I learned about molecules but isn’t it only true in a theoretical sense that copper conductors in the real world contain only atoms because most conductors aren’t exclusively comprised of copper atoms?
 
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That is best assessed on the outcome. Does the treated cable have anything in common performance-wise with the untreated cable? Report after report have indicated that the answer isn’t just no, it’s hell no. Economics explains the rest.

The reply I deleted addressed patents. I mentioned that their purpose is to offer legal recourse if one’s invention is copied. QSA’s invention is whatever they are doing to process these cables. One can’t reverse-engineer this by slicing open a cable and since the invention itself never makes it into the hands of them public, the risk of copying it is extremely low. It thus makes perfect sense that patent protection wouldn’t be sought.

I wasn't addressing your post, but still, I disagree on both counts. What is the pricing based on: actual costs, monopoly, initial pharmaceutical, luxury, desire to remain a small business model (and be very selective with the license), etc.? The justification for the fuses is equivalence to higher priced components, i.e., luxury pricing, but then with the fuses there are importers involved, which adds maybe 30-40% to what the end user sees, or whatever the going importer margin is. I can tell you that I picked up some QSA fuses from the U.S. importer at a fair amount below half price recently (inventory sale).

Why can't someone in the industry buy a QSA cable (or fuse) and reverse engineer? The other day Paul McGowan of PS Audio mentioned in an Ask Paul video that they regularly buy competitors' products to learn from them. Smaller houses would have to be more selective, but with such a transformative product as QSA has, I would think sooner or later someone will take look, if they haven't already.
 
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Why can't someone in the industry buy a QSA cable (or fuse) and reverse engineer?
With a significant investment in dollars (and time) they could maybe identify what is different about the treated cable. But it can be a huge leap to figure out how to construct a mechanism that is able to put the cable in that state.
The other day Paul McGowan of PS Audio mentioned in an Ask Paul video that they regularly buy competitors' products to learn from them.
It should be obvious why that can be possible with other products. The cable itself is the invention. One can visually inspect it and get awfully close to figuring out the secret sauce of that particular invention.

With QSA the cables aren’t their invention as the physical cable was invented by someone else. Their invention is the process that alters an existing invention.

I mentioned Shunyata in the post I deleted. Their technologies that can reverse-engineers by dissecting their cables have all been protected by patents. TAP could easily show up in a competitor’s product, but if it did Shunyata has legal recourse because of their patent. That’s why Shunyata could be forthcoming about the secret sauce about TAP in their patent application.

KPIP is Shunyata’s process for burning in cables. This hasn’t been patented because as with QSA it would be really costly to reverse engineer the effect KPIP has had on a cable and even more costly to work back from that. The invention itself is safe in their facilities.

In the real world there aren’t many people (or any?) who have figured out exactly what is different about a burned in cable. It’s not at all realistic to think that what QSA is doing to a cable could be easily figured out. If it was easy then QSA could easily seek patent protection for their invention. Lawyers have to be involved in that process so it doesn’t come cheap.

I wasn't addressing your post, but still, I disagree on both counts. What is the pricing based on: actual costs, monopoly, initial pharmaceutical, luxury, desire to remain a small business model (and be very selective with the license), etc.? The justification for the fuses is equivalence to higher priced components, i.e., luxury pricing, but then with the fuses there are importers involved, which adds maybe 30-40% to what the end user sees, or whatever the going importer margin is.
I have no idea what your disagreement is with my comment that “Economics explains the rest.” As I understand it, demand for QSA has been beyond what they can keep up with. The longer a product undergoes their process, the lower the yield, so the higher the price. If one QSA fuse is twice the price of another QSA fuse, it could very well be that it is processed for twice as long. But there’s nothing preventing QSA from setting the price at what the market will bear. Heck I would. Eventually someone else might figure out how to develop a process that’s as effective so I might as well cash in while I can. I’m not saying this is the case but I just don’t understand why there’s such consternation over pricing given that how the free market operates is well known. I write this now as I’m off to spend too much money on a vacuum as I will only consider Dyson. Haha.
 
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Why can't someone in the industry buy a QSA cable (or fuse) and reverse engineer? The other day Paul McGowan of PS Audio mentioned in an Ask Paul video that they regularly buy competitors' products to learn from them. Smaller houses would have to be more selective, but with such a transformative product as QSA has, I would think sooner or later someone will take look, if they haven't already.
The problem is, reverse engineering would look at the physical construction and electrical behaviour of a cable. If QSA were making physical changes that would be relatively easy to detect, so they’d be advised to patent the treatment, assuming it was patentable. If on the other hand the changes were at the ‘quantum’ level within the cable’s atomic structure, there won‘t be any physical or electrical changes to detect, so the cable will appear to be the same despite sounding a lot different.

if i think of ways to treat a ‘whole or entire‘ cable in order to affect its sound, without making any apparent physical changes then the only thing I can think of, that is actually ‘quantum’ in nature is to look at randomising the spin of the unpaired electrons in the metallic bonds within the cable’s conductors, otherwise known as degaussing or demagnetising. Such a process has shown to be extremely effective in improving sound quality and could not be detected by reverse engineering a cable. What one could do however is the take two untreated cables, treat one per the above then compare the two to see if degaussing had a positive effect.
 
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Maybe the clue can be found in the fact that the QSA process is more effective with lower purity metals. It’s been too long since I learned about molecules but isn’t it only true in a theoretical sense that copper conductors in the real world contain only atoms because most conductors aren’t exclusively comprised of copper atoms?
While impurities will certainly be present, if those impurities have intrinsic electron arrangements that make them magnetic, iron for example, then degaussing would definitely have a greater effect on low purity conductors.
 
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Actually, in a way it’s dead on topic, but to each their own means, tastes and decisions. Right now, it’s waiting for the cables to be delivered and getting reports from a more variegated user sample.

QSA’s got a transformative technology (or technique), one that at least theoretically could transform the high end audio industry if QSA is so inclined, or when others pick up on it (which I’m guessing they will sooner or later). The possibility of a process that makes much better sounding audio available to a much wider audience at a more accessible price point would be a big deal.
 
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This discussion seems very off topic.
Off topic? This is a discussion forum for members to exchange views about hi-fi. This topic is about QSA making audiophiles a proposition that after treatment with their secret ‘quantum’ process a cable with a market value of $50 assumes a value of $2,500 . This discussion is simply exploring what that ‘secret’ could be, so as far as I can see, is entirely on topic.
When anything is labelled ’Quantum’ it is given an aura of mystery, given that very few people understand quantum physics. But having said that, there are literally only a handful of things that could be done to a complete confected cable that would be both non-destructive and would dramatically enhance the sound quality of a voltage passing through it.

The ‘value’ of a QSA Lanedri cable is very much dependent on QSAs ability to maintain their secret. If that secret is discovered and turns out to be fairly ‘everyday‘ and mundane it would very much undermine the huge mark-up as the technology would be available to everyone.

If QSA was a company with a background in Quantum physics I would conclude that their process is indeed something special and very difficult to discover, but that doesn’t appear to be the case. Given the few possibilities to enhance a cable‘s performance, the fact that the process was discovered outside of specialist research labs and that the process is not patented, I think it warrants some discussion about what audiophiles are actually getting for their money. I don‘t doubt the importance and significance of QSA’s discovery, i just question whether what they are doing transforms a $50 cable into something worth 50 times that price.
 
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Off topic? This is a discussion forum for members to exchange views about hi-fi.

Actually, in a way it’s dead on topic...

You're both dead wrong. This is a promoted thread in the Manufacturers, Distributors, and Dealers forum meaning @QSA-LANEDRI has paid money out of their pocket to WBF to run this thread as they see fit for the purposes of promoting their products and so as the OP, they have say in the ground rules for posting. @QSA-LANEDRI has already indicated the purpose for this forum is for people who have experience with these cables to post their listening impressions. He has already indicated that this is not a forum for discussing QSA's treatment and yet you two insist on pushing your speculative views on what is happening behind the scenes.

@Blackmorec, let me address some inaccuracies that seem to be the foundation of your speculation that have the potential to be damaging to QSA-Lanedri's reputation.

"Given that many University Physics Professors often have a tough time to precisely describe Quantum Physics, I wondered about who developed this technology but I found no connection between the name Lanedri and any academic institution or published papers , so I assume no university labs were involved, which means the discovery and development was in all likelihood done by a lay person, which infers that the technology used is, in all probability, already in the public domain, rather than something coming from pure academic research."

This is an irresponsible thing to say and so you were right to delete your post. Anas Lanedri is not the founder of QSA and he makes that clear on their website.

1677398575063.png

In my introductory post (post #29), I further stated that Anas' involvement with QSA began in 2021. On their website, they indicate that QSA's technology is the result of more than 22 years of R&D and so it's clear to anyone who has read what has been said that Anas Lanedri is not the developer of this technology.

1677398870151.png

So you do a search on "Lanedri" and find no connection with any academic institution or published papers and so you make the assumption that this development must have been made by a lay person and so the technology must already exist in the public domain. It would be best to at least base your speculations on known facts rather than make ignorant claims like this that are potentially damaging to a company's reputation.

Regarding the following statements from you and @highstream :

"When I look at the Q-L Revelation range of cables, what I would be buying is either Blue Jeans or Iconoclast confected cables, which start life as Belden and Canare bulk cable and sell for around $60- $100 for a 5ft finished cable. Following Q-L treatment, those same cables sell for between $2500 to $6000, so quite a mark-up."

"What is the pricing based on: actual costs, monopoly, initial pharmaceutical, luxury, desire to remain a small business model (and be very selective with the license), etc.?"

Why should you care? No one is putting a gun to your head to buy these cables. If the pricing offends you, go ahead and buy a Blue Jeans or Iconoclast cable instead. I already stated in post #30 that:

The magic that you will hear with the QSA-Lanedri line of cables has very little to do with the cables themselves. The cable is merely a vehicle for what is most important and that is the QSA treatment process. The cables that are being offered were chosen because they have properties that lend themselves to optimally manifesting the QSA process."

A surgical scalpel blade costs less than $10 to manufacture. It turns out that fortunately, you have an operable cancer. If you placed this $10 scalpel blade in the hands of a 1st year surgical resident, do you think you would get the same results compared against a surgeon that has had 22 years to develop and refine his skills? Two cakes can start off with the exact same ingredients and as we know, the final product can be dramatically different. If you two can't see beyond the fact that we started with Belden cable, it's time to look elsewhere. These cables are not for you.

Let me address this statement because it is inaccurate:

"According to Q-Ls marketing blurb, they present 3 key technologies:
1. Metal Molecular Activation Technology
2. Musical Metal Molecule Alignment Technology and
3. Skin Deep Compensation Technology

The first thing to know is that these aren’t scientific terms. Metals like copper, zinc, tin, silver gold etc. consist of atoms not molecules..."

In my day job, I am a physician and a clinical research scientist. I also have a degree in biochemistry. Of the elements in the periodic table, only the noble gases like helium, argon, krypton, neon, xenon, radon, and oganesson exist in nature in pure form and that is because they are considered non-reactive due to the fact that they have 8 valence electrons that fill their outermost energy level. All the other elements like copper, zinc, tin, silver, gold, etc. are reactive to varying degrees. Copper, for example, will start to react with oxygen in the air to form copper oxide, a molecule. This is why you have to melt and cast the copper cathodes in a reducing atmosphere to remove the oxygen and so these elements exist in nature as molecules to some degree and not in 100% pure form. We have already figured out that the less pure the conductor, the greater the impact of treatment suggesting that it is with the molecular form of copper where QSA has its greatest impact.

I trust it was not your agenda to cause harm. Since you are not going to get any affirmations from the manufacturer regarding your speculations (Anas has already stated he won't respond), let's give it a break. If you must, start another thread and debate it there.

I will finish with a response to this quote from you:

"I am 4 years into building and refining my streaming system..."

The audiophile journey is one of discovery. Speculation is fine but ultimately, you should not pass judgement on something unless you've heard it for yourself.
 
In our R&D, Iconoclast Cable caught our attention because they uniquely offer cables of different class that vary only in the purity of the conductor used. That means that they sell cables that are identical with respect to the star-quad geometry they prefer, the air-dielectric, shielding, connectors, etc., and vary ONLY with respect to the purity of the conductor. We purchased a set of their 4x4 XLR interconnects with 99.9% (3N) purity copper and another set with 99.99999% (7N) purity copper and applied treatment to each set.

Before treatment, I can attest to why Iconoclast charges more for the 7N UPOCC XLRs although the gains with their higher purity copper are more from a tonal standpoint. The presentation is smoother and deeper and richer in tone and amounts to what I considered to be a more accurate and refined timbre. Ironically, I know some who prefer the coarser nature of the lower purity cable. But is 7N UPOCC copper worth 3x more? Once again, value judgments should be left to the ears of the beholder but to my ears, while the differences are easy to hear, the difference between the 2 wasn't night and day.

After treatment, it was interesting to hear that both cables improved and so treatment does positively impact higher purity conductors. This is why in my mind, I believe a QSA-treated cable is the very best cable in the world because even if you preferred the tonal signature of another cable, applying QSA treatment to that cable should make it better. Here's the dilemma, however. While both cables improved with treatment, the lower purity 3N cable improved much more dramatically to the extent that it now outperformed the 7N cable. The 3N cable just sounded more alive and had more presence. The 7N cable sounded more lifeless but also more smeared and closed in.

We could have easily used much more expensive starting cables for this line but the dilemma we had with many of these expensive, highly-regarded "audiophile" cables on the market is that they almost universally use higher purity conductor and if they did have an entry level class that used a lower purity conductor, there usually were other compromises such as the use of less effective shielding, an inferior dielectric, geometry, etc. Like I said, Iconoclast is unique in their offerings where the only variable among their classes was the purity of the conductor used. We found that post-treatment, the 3N Iconoclast cables and Blue Jeans cables were outperforming the much more expensive cables we compared them against. An interesting story, one company who's cables we treated acknowledged the superior impact of QSA's treatment on their cables but ultimately refused to work with us because of the quandary that after treatment, their entry level $6k interconnects were now outperforming their statement $30k+ interconnects that they had spent years developing. If we can find interconnects that perform better than the Iconoclast interconnects we have selected for the Gamma line once they have received treatment, we are happy to move to that but so far, we have not heard better regardless of price.

1677407225214.png
 
@QSA-LANEDRI
Would Sablon Prince's submitted for QSA treatment be given the same cosmetic upgrades?
Yes, the Sablon power upgrade to the Spectra Series comes with the new look as well :)

For the Sablon cables that were already submitted for upgrade, applying the Spectra Series cosmetic will take some additional days as the cables needs to be shipped back to Sablon.
 
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