Record Cleaning Machines

[Bill Hart]

i missed the annoucement, which RCM are you using now??

I have the Audio Desk, which should by no means be read as a negative of the KL, which I'd be interested in trying at some point as well.
I guess the point I want to underscore with these ultrasonic machines is that it isn't just about convenience, but sonics (at least compared to ye olde VPI with the Walker regime). But, the total bonus of being able to just 'throw a load in the wash' while listening is a 'feature' that shouldn't be underestimated.
Listening sessions for me in the past were usually interrupted by cleaning records as I went (or if previously cleaned, touching them up) with the potential for contamination of the bottom side. Now, the cleaning process can take place while I'm listening- in short, no 'buzzkill' as they say. (I could never stand to just do serial cleaning sessions of a dozen or more records with a 4 step process on a vacuum machine).

 

[lakeallen]

I did more listening with the Klaudio tonight and would describe it in one word with "stark". It seemed to give the albums a firm shift in overall sound. On the albums/songs I've listened too a lot in the past there were changes in note decay, instrument emphasis and even loudness in passages. Some of this was almost otherworldly in it's sonics/presentation and sometimes it sounded harsh. I think what we have is a machine that reveals all on each record- good, bad and other. It lays open the music and vinyl and you heard exactly what you have. Good music on a not so good pressing will sound good but noisy. I have only two records cleaned on the Audio Desk and though it was a good sonic improvement I don't think it's as pronounced in it's effect. All this is opinion and with only a hand full of records so take it for what it's worth.

 

[Bill Hart]

Lakeallen- from your previous posts, I gather that you don't have either machine at home, but had a few records cleaned on each. Are you comparing different recordings cleaned on each machine?
(and welcome to the forum).

 

[puroagave]

I have the Audio Desk, which should by no means be read as a negative of the KL, which I'd be interested in trying at some point as well.
I guess the point I want to underscore with these ultrasonic machines is that it isn't just about convenience, but sonics (at least compared to ye olde VPI with the Walker regime). But, the total bonus of being able to just 'throw a load in the wash' while listening is a 'feature' that shouldn't be underestimated.
Listening sessions for me in the past were usually interrupted by cleaning records as I went (or if previously cleaned, touching them up) with the potential for contamination of the bottom side. Now, the cleaning process can take place while I'm listening- in short, no 'buzzkill' as they say. (I could never stand to just do serial cleaning sessions of a dozen or more records with a 4 step process on a vacuum machine).

congrats the consensus is overwhelming in favor of ultrasonic i'll jump onboard when the 'perfect' device is intro'd thats not feature laden with blowers/pumps. The DIY and german language boards report much better cavitation and hence cleaner records, when the solution is heated. can the AD or KL for that matter keep the 'bath' heated?

 

[lakeallen]

Lakeallen- from your previous posts, I gather that you don't have either machine at home, but had a few records cleaned on each. Are you comparing different recordings cleaned on each machine?
(and welcome to the forum).

Whart- Yes, I had three records cleaned at Klaudio HQ and two cleaned by a local friend/dealer with his Audio Desk. I A/B'ed the records before cleaning and after with the A.D. but had to clean and take home and listen (a couple days later) with the KL records. I brought favorites to the KL cleaning (Pink Floyd, Rickie Lee Jones and ZZ Top Deguello) so I am familiar with their "before and after" sound, except the Pink reissue which I had only played a song or two before the KL cleaning but feel I had a good handle on it's pre-cleaning sound.

 

[rockitman]

Congrats Bill,

If you ever have any issues, like droplets left on some thin records ect, reach out and I will share how I deal with the issue.

 

[Bill Hart]

Whart- Yes, I had three records cleaned at Klaudio HQ and two cleaned by a local friend/dealer with his Audio Desk. I A/B'ed the records before cleaning and after with the A.D. but had to clean and take home and listen (a couple days later) with the KL records. I brought favorites to the KL cleaning (Pink Floyd, Rickie Lee Jones and ZZ Top Deguello) so I am familiar with their "before and after" sound, except the Pink reissue which I had only played a song or two before the KL cleaning but feel I had a good handle on it's pre-cleaning sound.

Lakeallen- just wondering if a more valid comparison is two of the same album/same pressing, etc- one cleaned by each machine- I guess we could get down to variations in the sound of matrix numbers, which way lies madness.

 

[Bill Hart]

Congrats Bill,

If you ever have any issues, like droplets left on some thin records ect, reach out and I will share how I deal with the issue.

Thanks Christian. So far, with a variety of records, old, new, fat, thin, its worked fine. There was some nasty discoloration on a sealed copy of Cisco's pressing of Aja which didn't come out with a normal clean cycle, but the record was dead quiet- killer sounding copy btw, that Cisco (and I can't count how many pressings of that record I have laying around).

 

[Bill Hart]

congrats the consensus is overwhelming in favor of ultrasonic i'll jump onboard when the 'perfect' device is intro'd thats not feature laden with blowers/pumps. The DIY and german language boards report much better cavitation and hence cleaner records, when the solution is heated. can the AD or KL for that matter keep the 'bath' heated?

Dunno. My investigative skills are at low ebb at the moment, but it's a good question. So, no blower or pump, but we add a heater? What do the DYI dudes do? One of those little immersion coils?

 

[rockitman]

Thanks Christian. So far, with a variety of records, old, new, fat, thin, its worked fine. There was some nasty discoloration on a sealed copy of Cisco's pressing of Aja which didn't come out with a normal clean cycle, but the record was dead quiet- killer sounding copy btw, that Cisco (and I can't count how many pressings of that record I have laying around).

If you do get a drop or two, I keep a clean, folded up micro towel by the machine to blot them off.

 

[rockitman]

Thanks Christian. So far, with a variety of records, old, new, fat, thin, its worked fine. There was some nasty discoloration on a sealed copy of Cisco's pressing of Aja which didn't come out with a normal clean cycle, but the record was dead quiet- killer sounding copy btw, that Cisco (and I can't count how many pressings of that record I have laying around).

I use Audio Intelligent No. 15 pre wash enzymatic fluid on records like that, dry it off and finish in the audio desk

 

[cjfrbw]

Don't think your are going to get it all in one fully automatic package if you want the record to pop in and out like a toaster, you kind of have to pick your poison for automatic cleaning, spit 'n suck, ultrasonic etc. I have never heard of an automatic machine that incorporates steam. That would be where the Downton Abbey record cleaning butler comes in handy.

My full court press on the rare occasions when I clean records is all hand i.e. to wipe with gauze and cleaning solution, then a heated ultrasonic bath from my old office for a few spins on the groove part, then a steam wand rinse followed by a water rinse and hand drying with terry cloth and lintless absorbent tissue. When the stuff is set up, it doesn't take that long for each record, but a bit to set up with all the stuff and of course it is "clean and listen" rather than "listen while one is automatically cleaning". That is one clean record when the process is finished. I put a sticker on the record jacket to indicate it is cleaned and as far as I am concerned, it is cleaned for life.

As stated, ultrasonics are supposed to work best with heating and surfactants, the micro bubbles do the cleansing, but I suppose the KL claims the more powerful ultrasonic to work with plain distilled water.

 

[puroagave]

Dunno. My investigative skills are at low ebb at the moment, but it's a good question. So, no blower or pump, but we add a heater? What do the DYI dudes do? One of those little immersion coils?

the ultrasonic machines the DIYers adapt for LP cleaning all have built in heaters, supposedly its de rigueur for lab work and properly cleaning anything ultrasonically. some have arrived at a specifc temperature and use of certain surfacants to reach the the max cleaning potential. so the AD and i guess the KL arent heatable.

im tempeted to take a whack at one of these heated DIY ultrasonic doodads but i ve got too much on plate as it is and little inclination for another 'project'.

 

[Dimfer]

a lot of discussions about DIY ultrasonic record cleaning machines here.. most of the DIYers shoot for min. of 40 khz, they say when the ultrasonic machine operating frequency is too low, the bubbles generated are too big and not the best for the purpose ( I have not verified this information ).

 

[rockitman]

the ultrasonic machines the DIYers adapt for LP cleaning all have built in heaters, supposedly its de rigueur for lab work and properly cleaning anything ultrasonically. some have arrived at a specifc temperature and use of certain surfacants to reach the the max cleaning potential. so the AD and i guess the KL arent heatable.

im tempeted to take a whack at one of these heated DIY ultrasonic doodads but i ve got too much on plate as it is and little inclination for another 'project'.

The dyi ultra kits have one fatal flaw. The don't dry the record. That is a big deal for me. 7 minutes unattended and I'm done.

 

[Bill Hart]

Don't think your are going to get it all in one fully automatic package if you want the record to pop in and out like a toaster, you kind of have to pick your poison for automatic cleaning, spit 'n suck, ultrasonic etc. I have never heard of an automatic machine that incorporates steam. That would be where the Downton Abbey record cleaning butler comes in handy.

My full court press on the rare occasions when I clean records is all hand i.e. to wipe with gauze and cleaning solution, then a heated ultrasonic bath from my old office for a few spins on the groove part, then a steam wand rinse followed by a water rinse and hand drying with terry cloth and lintless absorbent tissue. When the stuff is set up, it doesn't take that long for each record, but a bit to set up with all the stuff and of course it is "clean and listen" rather than "listen while one is automatically cleaning". That is one clean record when the process is finished. I put a sticker on the record jacket to indicate it is cleaned and as far as I am concerned, it is cleaned for life.

As stated, ultrasonics are supposed to work best with heating and surfactants, the micro bubbles do the cleansing, but I suppose the KL claims the more powerful ultrasonic to work with plain distilled water.

The truly well heeled audiophile would indeed have an old school vinyl butler. With proper British accent, correctly attired. "Your vinyl is served, M'Lord." Allow your inspection whilst he holds it, white gloved, at a respectful distance. You nod and he proceeds to cue it up and adjust the volume. (No need for remote control, so uncivilized). He then resumes position, hands folded below his waistcoat, in the shadows of the room until further need. (A good butler never needs to be summoned, that's a bad sign- he should be able to read your mind).

 

[Bill Hart]

the ultrasonic machines the DIYers adapt for LP cleaning all have built in heaters, supposedly its de rigueur for lab work and properly cleaning anything ultrasonically. some have arrived at a specifc temperature and use of certain surfacants to reach the the max cleaning potential. so the AD and i guess the KL arent heatable.

im tempeted to take a whack at one of these heated DIY ultrasonic doodads but i ve got too much on plate as it is and little inclination for another 'project'.

I will say this- medical and scientific types have lots of cool gear. I was at the dentist's last week, admiring some really nice piece of laser gear, built in a stainless cabinet, on wheels. Kinda funny what turns us on, huh?

 

[JackD201]

The truly well heeled audiophile would indeed have an old school vinyl butler. With proper British accent, correctly attired. "Your vinyl is served, M'Lord." Allow your inspection whilst he holds it, white gloved, at a respectful distance. You nod and he proceeds to cue it up and adjust the volume. (No need for remote control, so uncivilized). He then resumes position, hands folded below his waistcoat, in the shadows of the room until further need. (A good butler never needs to be summoned, that's a bad sign- he should be able to read your mind).

I'd settle for a droid that would fold itself into a side table. An ice machine and a below zero cooler onboard would be nice too.

 

[MylesBAstor]

Lakeallen- just wondering if a more valid comparison is two of the same album/same pressing, etc- one cleaned by each machine- I guess we could get down to variations in the sound of matrix numbers, which way lies madness.

Of course that would be ideal. That's what I did in my original RCF survey in Sounds Like. However back then just went down to Chesky's and tried to get consecutively pressed LPs. Not so easy today.

 

[puroagave]

The dyi ultra kits have one fatal flaw. The don't dry the record. That is a big deal for me. 7 minutes unattended and I'm done.

thats my point i dont want it to dry the LP, clean only. when i clean LPs i carve out an afternnon and do 30, 40 or more LPs at a time and use a vacuum RCM and by hand. i anticipate using an Ultrasonic machine as the first step and final rinse/vac dry on my RCM.

any ultrasonic machine in development for LP cleaning should consider the thousands of RCMs already in use with vacuum drying capability, i see ultrasonic as adjunct not a replacement for vac dry machines.