Record Label Honesty In the Download Era

pleroma

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In the era of high-resolution digital music downloads, classical music collectors are often confronted with a confusing array of formats and sampling rates within formats. One eventually learns about the different sampling rates available for PCM releases, and does his best to make an informed decision about which one has the best sound quality for his requirements. For legacy classical releases which have been marketed as "remastered" at a certain bit-depth and sampling rate, one generally expects his purchase to reflect what was advertised. Unfortunately this may not always be the case.

Are some record labels essentially repackaging redbook-CD-resolution data as high-resolution? A friend of mine and I have consistently raised this question about a number of recent digital releases from "Alexander Bak Reference Recordings" and "Praga Digitals" on Qobuz. But most recently we may have discovered an Australian affiliate of music titan Universal doing the same. I make no accusation here, but simply lay out our analysis for you to decide.

Here is the spectrogram of the first track from Henryk Szeryng's Beethoven Violin Concerto, recently released from Universal Music Australia on Qobuz. You can see the truncation of the Nyquist frequency between 22kHz (RBCD) and 24kHz:

1695401721528.png

Beethoven: Violin Concerto (Hans Schmidt-Isserstedt Edition 2, Vol. 1), Ludwig van Beethoven by Henryk Szeryng - Qobuz

Some might argue this is could be 24/44.1kHz data, but then why use 48kHz? Attempts to contact Universal Australia for inquiry have been unsuccessful. We did contact Alexander Bak Reference Recordings, who chose not to disclose their sources (though larger labels routinely state if original sources were used). At best this is misleading, as Universal has the resources to provide true high-resolution music. We've found other questionable examples from Universal Music in Japan, who distribute some 24/192 releases which appear to have been downsampled from DSD (SACD) releases, when the mastering studio uses 24/192 for the working master (in the interest of keeping this article brief, I've omitted this spectrogram with tell-tale, out-of-band noise from a recent purchase of mine).

For collectors who've bought the same releases multiple times over the decades, and believe these distinctions are significant and audible, one solution is to buy only a track and analyze it with the free Audacity editor. Ideally, labels would disclose what they're doing.
 
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Kingrex

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False advertising is a criminal offense. Its not just honesty
 

Solypsa

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Ideally, labels would disclose what they're doing.
Since a large majority don't care what they listen to, the labels have, in all likelihood, become used to doing what they want. Or at least what is convenient.

Thanks for posting your findings.
 
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bonzo75

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acousticsguru

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like MoFi with advertised on TAS and TAS defended it
Both practices are counter-intuitive, albeit different. I happen to find “repackaging” of formats in larger format container equally fraudulent yet worse in the sense as there’s no other reason than to make a profit.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 

Lee

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like MoFi with advertised on TAS and TAS defended it

Not true. TAS did not defend MFSL lying about the mastering being from digital. TAS did include an interview with Mofi.
 

bonzo75

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Not true. TAS did not defend MFSL lying about the mastering being from digital. TAS did include an interview with Mofi.

Some of us had a spread bet going on how fast you would come to defend it.


 

facten

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Not true. TAS did not defend MFSL lying about the mastering being from digital. TAS did include an interview with Mofi

Tossed up softballs not one hard question; allowed them to use TAS to spin its story line
 

Kingrex

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Didn't MOFI end up having to pay something in court?
 
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Lee

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Some of us had a spread bet going on how fast you would come to defend it.



Bonzo,

I doubt you or anyone else can hear the difference between Quad DSD as a source and the analog tape…So with respect to the first article you linked to, I think Robert Harley is on solid ground on sonics.

MFSL should have told us at the beginning that they couldn’t get the tapes so they arranged for ultra high resolution Quad DSD transfers. I think their customers would have understood.
 

Lee

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Some of us had a spread bet going on how fast you would come to defend it.



In the second article, it is essentially Valin saying that Mofi made a mess and needed to clean it up. And he also took Mofi to task for lying about the provenance. That’s the opposite of a defense of Mofi.
 

acousticsguru

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Bonzo,

I doubt you or anyone else can hear the difference between Quad DSD as a source and the analog tape…So with respect to the first article you linked to, I think Robert Harley is on solid ground on sonics.

MFSL should have told us at the beginning that they couldn’t get the tapes so they arranged for ultra high resolution Quad DSD transfers. I think their customers would have understood.
That’s why to me there’s a difference: MoFi wasn’t transparent about using DSD flat transfers versus analogue copies (the idea that the analogue master itself would be played back on an open reel tape recorder multiple times in any real world scenario is beyond naive, not sure where people on YT and in forums got that idea from - as a general rule, master tapes, let alone session tapes never leave archive vaults), but no one including the purists could (nor did before they knew!) argue the result MoFi got sonically. I personally always felt the LP and SACD remasterings sounded identical in recent years, but that’s not the point. Repackaging e.g. redbook resolution PCM in a high-resolution container format (the subject of this thread), no one can claim to do it with quality in mind - it’s fraudulent and the sole purpose is to make a quick buck.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
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pleroma

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That’s why to me there’s a difference: MoFi wasn’t transparent about using DSD flat transfers versus analogue copies (the idea that the analogue master itself would be played back on an open reel tape recorder multiple times in any real world scenario is beyond naive, not sure where people on YT and in forums got that idea from - as a general rule, master tapes, let alone session tapes never leave archive vaults), but no one including the purists could (nor did before they knew!) argue the result MoFi got sonically. I personally always felt the LP and SACD remasterings sounded identical in recent years, but that’s not the point. Repackaging e.g. redbook resolution PCM in a high-resolution container format (the subject of this thread), no one can claim to do it with quality in mind - it’s fraudulent and the sole purpose is to make a quick buck.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

On the original example, and to make this a little more interesting, how would you approach the analysis if you had a 24/44 offering on Qobuz, and you were still suspicious?

I wondered why, if you intend to deceive, would you use 48kHz and make it so easy to discover, unless you don't believe you're deceiving, and allege your releases sound better than redbook (Alexander Bak Reference Recordings' claim).
 
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Ron Resnick

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like MoFi with advertised on TAS and TAS defended it

How about not derailing pleroma's thread and making this thread about a pet topic of yours? If you complain that Al M does that with videos the least you could do is refrain from doing it yourself.
 
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Ron Resnick

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Does anyone have a pertinent response to pleroma's thoughtful and well-evidenced opening post?
 

Lee

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That’s why to me there’s a difference: MoFi wasn’t transparent about using DSD flat transfers versus analogue copies (the idea that the analogue master itself would be played back on an open reel tape recorder multiple times in any real world scenario is beyond naive, not sure where people on YT and in forums got that idea from - as a general rule, master tapes, let alone session tapes never leave archive vaults), but no one including the purists could (nor did before they knew!) argue the result MoFi got sonically. I personally always felt the LP and SACD remasterings sounded identical in recent years, but that’s not the point. Repackaging e.g. redbook resolution PCM in a high-resolution container format (the subject of this thread), no one can claim to do it with quality in mind - it’s fraudulent and the sole purpose is to make a quick buck.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
That's a different topic than the post from Bonzo. I do agree that a 16/44 source file repackaged in a hirez container is bogus.
 

bonzo75

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How about not derailing pleroma's thread and making this thread about a pet topic of yours? If you complain that Al M does that with videos the least you could do is refrain from doing it yourself.

i replied to king Rex’s honesty misrepresentation comment. And interesting that you have never mentioned about derailing to Al yourself
 

acousticsguru

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On the original example, and to make this a little more interesting, how would you approach the analysis if you had a 24/44 offering on Qobuz, and you were still suspicious?

I wondered why, if you intend to deceive, would you use 48kHz and make it so easy to discover, unless you don't believe you're deceiving, and allege your releases sound better than redbook (Alexander Bak Reference Recordings' claim).
If it really does sound different, there’s a chance it isn’t just a resampling, but that some sort of equalization or processing was applied. If so, this might be considered added value. One could for example improve on the sound of lesser quality RBCD files running them through e.g. Daniel Hertz Masterclass, tastefully using the five-band equalizer and applying A+ (similarity to Burwen Bobcat). There are countless tools out there, Audacity which I’m assuming you used to have a look at your file being one of them. One would need to do a so-called null test (Audacity includes that function: invert / combine / render into a new file) if in this instance you have the original CD ripped.

In other words, the fact alone that an RBCD file was resampled, i.e. rendered and saved into a larger file container, isn’t sufficient information to determine if one is looking at a bogus offering. Note I hesitate referring to such a file as an “upsampling” (versus a resampling) without determining whether the tool in question is using interpolation filters (think of a film as a succession of snapshots, multiplying them with or without interpolation software).

Years ago there was an uproar against HDtracks offering resampling files, forcing them to have a second look at their catalogue. Some of their (later) competition such as HiResAudio will check all and flat out refuse files from labels when they find them to different from advertised, possibly because in Germany the legal situation is different (I know in Switzerland repackaging / renaming / relabeling for profit is a criminal offense).

Other sites such as Qobuz appear to leave this duty (of checking file content) to their customers, which I think is bad practice (and which may point to a different situation legally, presumably referring back to the source and claiming they’re the victim).

There are worse problems in terms of diminishing the sound quality of commercial high-resolution releases, e.g. “Mastered for iTunes”: what it means is the dynamic compression level is tailored so a (re-)mastering will sound “best” (they really believe that) on an MP3 (mobile) device. At that point it no longer matters if a master with a compression level of e.g. 10 and below (check and download tool at Dynamic Range DataBase / Google “Loudness War”) is simultaneously being marketed in a high-resolution format (e.g. 24/96 PCM being the most popular for years, increasingly replaced by the more popular 24/192 - with absolutely no difference in content), yet one must wonder if the practice can be considered illegal (it could, in Switzerland, if a site sold an overtly identical product, e.g. in 24/96 and 24/192 file containers at different price levels, but not if the price difference were realistic, e.g. based on additional cloud storage cost).

The irony is that the tools are available online and for free.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 
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bonzo75

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Bonzo,

I doubt you or anyone else can hear the difference between Quad DSD as a source and the analog tape…
never tried that compare. but never liked a single MoFi record.
 
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acousticsguru

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Didn't MOFI end up having to pay something in court?
2 million total (if memory serves) and only to customers who’d fill in a claim prior to a specified date and provide a receipt for a sale from an official dealer at release price.

Greetings from Switzerland, David.
 

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