I was at the record store yesterday and listening to the Mofi point source speakers, which were cool (my buddy is looking into them), and checking out all these vintage TTs as well. Anyway, the boss did an experiment with a heavy record weight (Thorens) vs a tiny one with some special gibberish in it of the ordinary audiophile exotic material kind. The whole experiment and conversation intrigued me. Then I read the review of the Origin Live weight by Hifi Advice, a site I love, and this made me wonder a couple things:
1) What do you think about heavy vs material?
2) What weight do you use?
A weight will affect the suspension on a suspended table. So I don’t use one on the LP12s.
On a solid unit, like my Clearaudio Master Reference, a weight will impact balance and maglev bearing. I use a Clearaudio clamp out of habit.
The material of a MAT is important as a mat is in contact with the whole vinyl surface. A weight on top of the label seems like it would only do nefarious things to the suspension or balance. And the label area is so small, how much effect could it have?
I didnt hear much. very subtle difference. Just was curious. the dealer said some people think the heavier the better but he thinks the material the clamp is made of is more important than the weight, i.e. how heavy it is.
Presumably a clamp (threaded or similar fixation) doesn't need to be particularly heavy? It would seem intuitive that a weight would require a heavy material of some sort. I've used both threaded clamps and weights on the TT that I've had, and neither method really fixes the issues of a slightly warped disc. I've recently bought a Bergmann Galder TT with a vacuum hold down, which in my mind is just magic - perfectly flat disc.
Presumably a clamp (threaded or similar fixation) doesn't need to be particularly heavy? It would seem intuitive that a weight would require a heavy material of some sort. I've used both threaded clamps and weights on the TT that I've had, and neither method really fixes the issues of a slightly warped disc. I've recently bought a Bergmann Galder TT with a vacuum hold down, which in my mind is just magic - perfectly flat disc.
Vacuum hold down has always seemed to be the most promising.
At one time I used a periphery ring on a high end VPI table, which I think has a better chance of flattening a record than a label covering weight or clamp. But I had only a few records that were improved by using it, and so it was revealed as another mostly useless, expensive tweak. In fact, it made dropping the needle more tricky since you don’t want to drop onto the ring.
People swear by these kinds of mods.
My experience is that they’re just part of the OCD TT culture. Resist if you can.
i would suggest some sort of anti-resonance material.
I used the SOTA reflex clamp. The SOTA had a massive plater, and a relatively fragile ruby bearing, and a low torque motor. Adding s significant mass was neither necessary nor advisable. As it was spring loaded. it also had vacuum hold down.
I had a screw down clamp with washer on my SME 30/12. Then I had a vacuum hold down with my Micro Seiki SX8000II. Now I have a heavy stainless steel weight on a very slightly concave platter surface with leather mat on my American Sound. This solution has been the most effective at keeping records flat and it is very easy to use. It is a very elegant solution to a common problem.
The challenge is getting the right amount of weight. Too much and it over damps the sound. Not enough and it is less effective at flattening the record. The challenge is striking a balance for the right sound while also making the records perfectly flat. In my case, the LP to platter interface is an interval part of the design of the turntable. With aftermarket solutions, there may be trade-offs depending on the approach.
I have tried a few different center weight, the best is the screw-down lead model that came with my Maplenoll TT and i don't even screw it down Bought a couple of different models, one on someone knowledgeable recommendation. I also got a 2,7 lb stainless model that just deadens the sound to much. I suspect the original one just has the best contact points and weight for this TT. and having a good mat is part of the equation.
The Thorens one looks really cool spinning, but it is very heavy. I worry it would dampen sound. It was hard to tell in teh shop with equipment I’m not used to
I use the plasticky clearaudio clamp because metallic weights/clamps have a tendency to exert adverse eddy current effects onto the cartridge - affecting the subsequent sound negatively in terms of reduced soundstaging, hardened sound timbre and bloated mid bass.
This week I'll have the Modi installed with custom made Delrin platter and Delrin clamp.
The Modi plinth is polypropylene btw.
Trying to negotiate better price for a NOS Lyra Skala (with non-metallic body structure) to get it in time for Saturday's installation...
I also experimented with Delrin Clamp vs Metallic Clamp on CD transport
Depends not just on the weight and its material but the platter and any mat too.
The PTP Lenco with original rubber mat benefitted from an HRS record stabiliser but that’s the only use I’ve found for it and I prefer a TEAC Washi paper mat and no weight on that deck.
My Artemis came with a acrylic mat and a 100g delrin weight and they work well together, I also have a Herbie’s mat for it and like that best with no weight but mostly I used the original setup, the HRS isn’t of benefit with either.
I’ve also tried the HRS on my Townshend, removing the washer, but I always come back to the original clamp and washer on its slightly dished platter.
I did extensive blind listening tests on seven record weights a couple of years ago when I still owned my TW Acustic Raven One turntable. I ran the table sans mat as per Jeff Catalano’s (High Water Sound) suggestion. While I thought I could hear differences, I couldn’t reproduce the results. In fact, my performance gave effectively a random distribution.
In my experience, Only applying weight or pressure at the spindle may not work at all, or make it even worse..
That is why I use this.. Michell record clamp +felt pad.
See from 4 minutes in…the key is the felt pad
I can get flatter records with this than with some vacuum platters..
On my Michell Gyro SE I can even have a 2mm “rubber” mat on and still clamp the record..
Works fine on my Denon DP-51F, 21F, and Sony 212 to, all with rubber mats.
