Robert Koda K160 Amps are on their way finally!

Thanks, Amadeus! Very good to know...wow 500 hours...only 360-370 to go then! As for bass, yes it is important to me...but I suppose the reason (for now) I focus on it is because the rest is already far better (ie, 'done')...but I dont want to feel like the bass was a compromise to get something better someplace else.

As long as the sound stays 'as is' or even improves, then this is a completely better amp in all respects. I think you already have said it is far superior...and it sounds like the other who also has had the monos for longer has said the same.

...more to come.
 
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Thanks, Amadeus! Very good to know...wow 500 hours...only 360-370 to go then! As for bass, yes it is important to me...but I suppose the reason (for now) I focus on it is because the rest is already far better (ie, 'done')...but I dont want to feel like the bass was a compromise to get something better someplace else.

As long as the sound stays 'as is' or even improves, then this is a completely better amp in all respects. I think you already have said it is far superior...and it sounds like the other who also has had the monos for longer has said the same.

...more to come.

Good to hear that my promisses didnt mislead you or any other:)
 
Amadeus,

Your words were more true than even I fully appreciated. Listening to Waltz for Debby (Analogue Productions remastered Gold CD) right now...ok, not a bass monster by any stretch of the imagination...but NOW we can appreciate the full complete sense of the club, the people, the evening...which is all about the OTHER magnificent qualities of the Robert Koda K15EX/K160 as imagined by the mind and hand of Robert Koch.
 
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Amadeus,

Your words were more true than even I fully appreciated. Listening to Waltz for Debby (Analogue Productions remastered Gold CD) right now...ok, not a bass monster by any stretch of the imagination...but NOW we can appreciate the full complete sense of the club, the people, the evening...which is all about the OTHER magnificent qualities of the Robert Koda K15EX/K160 as imagined by the mind and hand of Robert Koch.
why is it Robert Koda and not Robert Koch for the brand name?
 
why is it Robert Koda and not Robert Koch for the brand name?
I believe Koda is the combination of two last names in his family. His own and his wife's maiden/family name?
 
An update on the Robert Koda K160s posted earlier today elsewhere in response to 2 questions...thought I would place here for proper long-term reference for others.


After several months...

....So far, stunning. I am still getting to know them and finding them remarkably composed and resolved in a way that even the mighty Mephisto did not match. That has required quite an adjustment for me in the 'art of the possible' because heretofore, I had not come across amplification I preferred in so many respects as the Gryphon...and certainly not something which made me question the leaps and bounds yet possible in sound reproduction.

The one area where I have a coin still flipping in the air is the upper bass. The Mephisto brings more raw power to that band. On all tracks, the Kodas upper bass is far more articulate than even the Mephisto...and it is really exciting when you get down very very low bass where the power of the Robert Koda exceeds a single Mephisto stereo.

But in the upper bass, there are about 10% of the tracks so far (see post #188 below where I give 2 examples), where the upper bass presentation is different between the two, and I genuinely struggle to figure out who is 'right' on the bass power. The Koda is so articulate, it finely splices elements of the bass in house tracks so you can really hear what is going on...and in a completely organic way.

And in my experience when you do that splicing...you tend to find that the bass wallop ebbs slightly because it is spread out across those splices. By contrast, the Gryphon is not as finely spliced...but you get a 5%-7% greater bass wallop (which for a bass freak like me is extremely material).

I am pretty happy to be critical and complimentary of our equipment and have no qualms in calling a spade a spade...good bad or indifferent. In this case, I am genuinely still trying to make up my mind.

PLUS, the XLFs have STILL not been finetuned/adjusted by the Wilson distributor...partly due to equipment changes and partly due to Covid. So there is also that finetuning which could make quite a difference...moving the speaker back by 2-3cm towards the back wall would no doubt have an influence on bass power.

HOWEVER...other than this one element, I can say that nothing in my own limited personal experience has rivaled the nuanced, organic way that Robert Koda has with music...which is then coupled with insanely low noise floor which allows a lot more detail to float through to the surface. Because of the 230 watts Class A power on tap and his design (dont really understand it but apparently likened to single ended triode, pure Class A no push/pull something about only N resistors no 'P' resistors or something...some other audiophiles will undoubtedly get it whereas I dont)...the amount of dynamic (macro and micro) on tap gives you remarkable inner articulation in the nuances of music that creates both intensely filigreed detail while always presenting it as part of an organic tapestry of music. The closest analogy is like super-super fine silk embroidery which you see in Asia where its like a highly detailed painting but its actually threads on silk...its all threads hand-sewn to make a piece of cloth with artwork on it that is virtually indistinguishable from a painting. Robert Koda has simply gotten to a level of perfection I have not experienced before.
 
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Furthermore, once I have decided which I think is right...I might still try to see if I can have my cake and eat it too. A gentle nudge in upper bass power is something I am ruminating as we get to know the sound.

As for the 10% of tracks where I have a coin-toss between Koda and Mephisto...Tron Legacy soundtrack - Track 17. Those opening Kodo-like drums are a very very good example...perhaps the clearest example so far. I know them well from the Gryphon Mephisto. You have greater articulation through the Kodas but at super low levels of volume, the Mephisto's upper bass balance allows you to listen at level 1...and never feel the need to increase volume because the power is there.

On the Robert Koda, you do feel that itch to turn it up a bit...not for detail but for power.

The other one is Dark Knight Rises...the opening track. The bass is more congealed with the Gryphon...power, drama...B-A-S-S. With the Koda, you get drama, power, BASS...but it is more articulated by far and you really start to hear how Hans Zimmer built up the bass lines in this.

Here it is definitely more convincing that you run with Koda over Mephstio (vs the Tron soundtrack above)...and also because the bass power of the music is more evenly distributed between upper bass and lower bass (where again the Robert Koda is actually more powerful than the Mephisto).

But once again, if you listen casually, there is a raw power pull that you hear with the Gryphon which is also compelling. Again, in this instance, I also find that at super low volumes, there is something compelling about the Gryphon...but it is not nearly as 50-50 balanced between the winner as with Tron Track 17. Here I still find that Dark Knight Rises goes to Koda as winner.
 
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An update on the Robert Koda K160s posted earlier today elsewhere in response to 2 questions...thought I would place here for proper long-term reference for others.


After several months...

....So far, stunning. I am still getting to know them and finding them remarkably composed and resolved in a way that even the mighty Mephisto did not match. That has required quite an adjustment for me in the 'art of the possible' because heretofore, I had not come across amplification I preferred in so many respects as the Gryphon...and certainly not something which made me question the leaps and bounds yet possible in sound reproduction.

The one area where I have a coin still flipping in the air is the upper bass. The Mephisto brings more raw power to that band. On all tracks, the Kodas upper bass is far more articulate than even the Mephisto...and it is really exciting when you get down very very low bass where the power of the Robert Koda exceeds a single Mephisto stereo.

But in the upper bass, there are about 10% of the tracks so far (see post #188 below where I give 2 examples), where the upper bass presentation is different between the two, and I genuinely struggle to figure out who is 'right' on the bass power. The Koda is so articulate, it finely splices elements of the bass in house tracks so you can really hear what is going on...and in a completely organic way.

And in my experience when you do that splicing...you tend to find that the bass wallop ebbs slightly because it is spread out across those splices. By contrast, the Gryphon is not as finely spliced...but you get a 5%-7% greater bass wallop (which for a bass freak like me is extremely material).

I am pretty happy to be critical and complimentary of our equipment and have no qualms in calling a spade a spade...good bad or indifferent. In this case, I am genuinely still trying to make up my mind.

PLUS, the XLFs have STILL not been finetuned/adjusted by the Wilson distributor...partly due to equipment changes and partly due to Covid. So there is also that finetuning which could make quite a difference...moving the speaker back by 2-3cm towards the back wall would no doubt have an influence on bass power.

HOWEVER...other than this one element, I can say that nothing in my own limited personal experience has rivaled the nuanced, organic way that Robert Koda has with music...which is then coupled with insanely low noise floor which allows a lot more detail to float through to the surface. Because of the 230 watts Class A power on tap and his design (dont really understand it but apparently likened to single ended triode, pure Class A no push/pull something about only N resistors no 'P' resistors or something...some other audiophiles will undoubtedly get it whereas I dont)...the amount of dynamic (macro and micro) on tap gives you remarkable inner articulation in the nuances of music that creates both intensely filigreed detail while always presenting it as part of an organic tapestry of music. The closest analogy is like super-super fine silk embroidery which you see in Asia where its like a highly detailed painting but its actually threads on silk...its all threads hand-sewn to make a piece of cloth with artwork on it that is virtually indistinguishable from a painting. Robert Koda has simply gotten to a level of perfection I have not experienced before.

That is all absolutely wonderful, Lloyd! I am so happy for you!
 
Thanks, Ron. Adventures in grounding going on next...

...its been something like 10 years maybe more since Tripoint/Entreq first got started and am learning about where that whole design has gotten to. Interestingly, Koda has expressly designed a grounding post because of Tripoint on all of its equipment. More to come...
 
Apex monos vs K160s that would be another story.
 
Apex monos vs K160s that would be another story.
Yes, I suspect that fight would be quite something to hear...the sheer scale, size and power of the Apex's would surely be awe-inspiring...and given the progression of the original Antileon to Colosseum to Mephisto...I can imagine the Apex's ability to hand up limitless, effortless detail would also be remarkable as well.
 
Not a fair comparison as kodo’s are mono’s and gryphon is stereo
Thanks Jeffy. Totally fair point. In fact, for me, the real 'unfair' part of my comparison is actually the COST. The Kodas are much more expensive than the Mephisto, and in fact more expensive than the Mephisto monos as well.

From a stereo v mono standpoint, the Gryphon Mephisto is dual-mono...as in fully mono all the way to the outlets (2 monos in one shell). Nevertheless, your point remains well taken.

The reason for sharing the comparison is two-fold:

- its the only one I could make...and particularly, it (for me) was the real comparison because keeping Mephisto or going up to Koda were the only 2 options for us. There was never a serious option to go Mephisto monos.

- the Mephisto is far better known by audiophiles and so the comparison helps me articulate to fellow audiophiles how the Kodas sound. I can sort of calibrate people to what I am hearing with the Kodas.
 
Yes, I suspect that fight would be quite something to hear...the sheer scale, size and power of the Apex's would surely be awe-inspiring...and given the progression of the original Antileon to Colosseum to Mephisto...I can imagine the Apex's ability to hand up limitless, effortless detail would also be remarkable as well.
Was Mephisto so much better than Colleseum?
 
Was Mephisto so much better than Colleseum?
No...the leap between Koda and Mephisto Stereo is definitely much greater than between Mephisto and Colosseum. But so is the price...whereas the Mephisto is not nearly as much a leap in cost over the Colosseum.

As for the new Gryphon Apex, I suspect given the amount of real estate Gryphon have given themselves (Boulder 3000-like in sheer size and weight)...as well as in price...I suspect they would not have done that unless they were going for something seriously substantial in greater performance. One thing I have always respected about Gryphon is that they held their prices through the massive inflation of leading flagships...whereas 12+ years ago they were near the top of the pile in price, their pricing remained relatively stable for 12 years while other flagships rose in price from 20K to 40K to the 100K to 200K level really rapidly.

If Gryphon is now joining that top tier in pricing again, I suspect based on their approach, they are looking to provide extraordinary uplift in performance to match that extraordinary uplift in price.
 
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The reason for sharing
LL21, this thread has been a delight.
You are very generous with your time and sharing, you are very even-handed, thoughtful and considerate, not just in the way you weigh-up the audio (and WHAT A SYSTEM it is!), but in the way you deal with others posting, both here and across WBF.
Thanks very much :)
I will never own the 160s, but I am still learning a lot and enjoying this immensely
Kind regards,
 
Hi ICUToo,

Thank you! Most kind...enjoy the music...and your Audionets - some serious equipment there!
 
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Lloyd,

Fantastic write up. Your Kodas seem to be shining through. If you're able to show us photos of your system that would be great!
 
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Hi Lloyd, great write up. As always you’re able to convey the experiences very well. Thanks for taking the time to do this. Kodas add a visual beauty as well. nice to see a variation of the big black box amplifier.
Big congratulations to you.
 

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